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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:24 pm 
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http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/front/article/124569

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A student pilot is in critical condition after his plane skidded off a runway at Fredericton's airport and slammed into an embankment Saturday.

The young man flying the small plane came to Canada from China. He was learning to fly aircraft at the Moncton Flight College site at the Fredericton International Airport.

He sustained facial lacerations and broken bones in his forehead during the crash, which happened around 11:30 a.m. He's being treated at the Saint John Regional Hospital.

Mike Doiron, the college's principal and CEO, said the pilot was doing one of his first solo flight exercises. He said the pilot had problems during landing procedures that caused his plane to leave the runway and crash nose-first into a ditch.

Doiron said he's hopeful the student will come through the incident in good health.

"He's being heavily monitored by specialists in Saint John," he said. "He's sedated now, and we'll see what happens in the next day or two. His family has been notified and they're deciding whether to make the trip now, or wait to see what happens."

Cpl. Claude Tremblay of District 2 RCMP said the emergency response team had some problems communicating with the student at the crash site.

"We had a little bit of a problem with language -- at least at the beginning until we got a translator there," he said. "But everything is fine."

Two employees connected to the airport speculated language barriers between the pilot and the control tower may have played some role in the crash.

Doiron said he didn't believe a language barrier played any role in the incident.

"No, it doesn't appear to be (an issue)," he said. "The reason they wanted the translator was to make sure absolutely nothing was missed."

Andrew Leeming, director of operations at the Fredericton International Airport, said the crash shut down one of the airport's two runways until the plane was removed in the early evening.

Extra staff members were called in to the airport Saturday afternoon to help ensure operations continued as planned and flights arrived and departed on schedule.

Leeming said the airport will conduct an investigation to assess their emergency response services.

"We always go over our protocols after any kind of incident happens at the airport," he said.

"We'll review our emergency procedures and their effectiveness after the situation is resolved."

A airport crash usually requires an independent investigation by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. But since the crash involved a single, small-engine plane, Leeming said the board allowed the flight college to conduct its own internal investigation.

Doiron said the investigation will examine the mechanical functions of the plane as well as how prepared the student was before the crash.

"We're going to be looking at weather conditions, the aircraft's engine, the student's training profile."

In June, one of the college's planes was forced to make a belly landing at the Greater Moncton International Airport after a student and instructor had problems with the plane's landing gear.


The picture is pretty brutal, heres hoping hes ok.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:38 pm 
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A airport crash usually requires an independent investigation by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. But since the crash involved a single, small-engine plane, Leeming said the board allowed the flight college to conduct its own internal investigation.

Doiron said the investigation will examine the mechanical functions of the plane as well as how prepared the student was before the crash.

"We're going to be looking at weather conditions, the aircraft's engine, the student's training profile."


WTF?

Hope the student pulls through.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:55 pm 
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WTF is right, I think size should not matter get the TSB out there.

Saw a student go off the end of a short strip not to long ago, turned out he was not seated properly, did not apply the breaks fully and did not stop. Along with a long landing and admiring it into the fence, but amazing what little things can all add up to something like this. Hope he pulls through.

As for language barrier, I hope that it was not the case.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:57 pm 
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I really hope that quote is wrong. Allowing the flight school to do the only investigation????

Yeah, not conflict of interest there.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:59 am 
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Its a news report - it has a 30-50% chance of being correct.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:25 am 
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I fly out of MFC (rent their planes) on a regular basis, well every 2-3 months or so, most of my flying is done elsewhere, but what I can say as much of a nuthouse busy wise MFC is lately, their safety standards are the highest I've seen from any flight club in the Maritimes.

With as many planes they're putting in the air daily now (I was once #8 for approach) I personally think they're doing a fine job, but it's only a matter of time before something like this happens with as many hours as they are logging.

I've seen a few incidents there, watched a DA20 eat a snowbank, nobody hurt, departures from taxiways etc.

All that being said I think their safety is second to none when it comes to flightschools. An instructor can only teach so much, once the student is on their own, they are on their own.

However, allowing the school to do their own internal investigation is insane.

A near fatal plane crash, and TSB isn't there?

Furthermore, there's no control tower in YFC, it's Flight service.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:01 am 
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Welcome to the world of SMS


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:00 am 
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Since when has the TSB done a better job than anyone else at investigating small crashes. This isn't brain surgury. Besides, the insurance company for MFC is going to do their own investigation that will be more thorough than both TSB and MFC combined.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:01 am 
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When they say, they'll do their own investigation, it doesn't mean the TSB will not do one as well. Of course they will....you guys are reading WAY too much into a news report. The school SHOULD do their own investigation!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:08 am 
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reguardless of who does what, a student is clinging to life. I truely hope he pulls through.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:42 am 
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Gee, you figure they can pry the investigators away from the Tim Hortons deal to come have a look at this one, considering the injury as well as the potential question of language in flight training...

Nahh.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:32 am 
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http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/front/article/125543

Quote:
Injured pilot's condition has improved, college says



The condition of a student pilot injured in a plane crash at the Fredericton International Airport has been upgraded from critical to serious.

The student pilot, a man in his 20s from China, was the only occupant of the single-engine plane when it crashed on landing around 11:30 a.m. Saturday.

"He's responding very well to treatment, so we're very optimistic he's going to make a full recovery," said Mike Doiron, CEO of the Moncton Flight College.

The man is a student at the college's Fredericton campus. He's being treated at the Saint John Regional Hospital.

The student was the only person in the plane at the time of the crash.

He was injured while trying to land a Diamond DA20-C1 Eclipse. It left the runway and slammed nose-first into a ditch. The student sustained facial lacerations and head injuries.

Doiron said the investigation into the incident continues.

An interview with the pilot is key to determining what happened, Doiron said.

"We hope to do that in the next week or so," he said.

The school's operations are ongoing at campuses in Moncton and Fredericton.

"We're taking a hard look at the operation, obviously, to make sure nothing was missed."

Staff will go through a review process with students, Doiron said.

"After a situation like this, we tend to review everything with all the students to make sure nothing's been

missed."


Sounds like good news



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:29 am 
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According to the CADORS it was his first solo. Runway 33 with 5 to 9 knots of wind from the 'northeast'. My first question would be why send a student on a first solo with a potential 9 knot crosswind? Was 09/27 closed? I instructed for 3 years and sent out probably about 30 first solos, but would never do it with a 9 knot x/w. 5 was our 'company' limit for first (and subsequent) solos, until we had the 'fun' 25 knot x/w (dual) lesson plan...
I'm sure the instructor will have a few questions to answer. Not necessarily the student's fault here... hope he's well.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:15 pm 
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why send a student on a first solo with a potential 9 knot crosswind?


Depends on the student. I've done it with some, wouldn't
think of doing it with others. Not all students have the same
stick & rudder skills - I've soloed guys in the Pitts, which
requires more stick & rudder skill than most licenced pilots
will ever develop (shrug).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:53 pm 
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Welcome to the world of SMS


Huh?

Quote:
I really hope that quote is wrong. Allowing the flight school to do the only investigation????

Yeah, not conflict of interest there.


I'm sure the TSB doesn't take those decisions lightly. A student pilot injured in a single engine airplane in VFR conditions in aircraft operated by a reputable facility seems reasonable to me.

Do we really need a million dollar investigation to figure out what went wrong?



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:39 pm 
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Glad to see there's some good news coming.

Must be hell on his family.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:05 pm 
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Cpl. Claude Tremblay of District 2 RCMP said the emergency response team had some problems communicating with the student at the crash site.

"We had a little bit of a problem with language -- at least at the beginning until we got a translator there," he said. "But everything is fine."



Two employees connected to the airport speculated language barriers between the pilot and the control tower may have played some role in the crash.


Geez...don't let the "employees" speculate about anything.........cause ya know boyze boyze boyze will talk...oh wait...spekulate

And what the officer wanted the translator there to make sure nothing was missed. What they didn't want to pay attention to what the guy had to say?


Oh I'll bet they'll be talking about this one at the local Tim Horton's. Oh wait no they'll be talking about Ron Joyce. I wonder if they had translators there.......

But seriously folks. Every part of Canada has its own and unique accent. Oui? So here we have a visitor with a strong accent (and don't even start with the racism) and now he is injured and has to deal with paramedics and or police officers with strong accents.

Maybe ESL is needed here (and not for pilot either)

Sounds a lot like an Air Farce (you know the donut shop skit too much sugar in the cup.......ya ya ya) skit No? This hour has 22 minutes?



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:03 pm 
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It's not really a visitor.


there's at least 120 Chinese students if not more at MFC.

Language problems are a constant problem with their students and atc, and for those of us first language english speakers than fly there as well.

although apparently its been getting better.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:47 pm 
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Pilot bounced on landing & initiated a balked landing.
Applied full power in a nose down attitude and hit the ground hard nose first.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:47 am 
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xsbank wrote:
Its a news report - it has a 30-50% chance of being correct.


Come on XS, you are giving them way too much credit here!! :lol:



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:51 pm 
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Here's the result of another bounced/balked landing, from another graduate from an approved aviation career college:

Image

It's a good thing these days, with all the fancy technology, that pilot's don't need to have stick & rudder skills any more :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:27 pm 
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I hope the Durham guy did not require 12 hours of brain surgery to remove parts of his/her chipped skull.
Also to confirm the newspaper report is correct, the TSB is allowing MFC to conduct the investigation.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:25 pm 
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Quote:
Student pilot injured in crash recovering at Saint John hospital
Chinese pilot | Flight school CEO says language barrier not a factor in Fredericton airport crash


THE DAILY GLEANER
ADAM BOWIE
November 24, 2007

The student pilot critically injured in a plane crash at Fredericton International Airport two weeks ago is recovering well, says the director of the Moncton Flight College.

Ding Liang is recuperating at the Saint John Regional Hospital after his plane left the runway on landing and crashed into an embankment Nov. 10. Liang cut his face and broke bones in his forehead during the crash.

Mike Doiron, the flight college's principal and CEO, said the student pilot, who is in his early 20s, is on the mend.

"He's doing very, very well and everything is heading in the right direction, " he said.

"He'll be in the hospital for quite a while yet as he's going to be undergoing some various reparative surgeries. But as far as his medical condition as a result of the accident, he's actually quite good."

Doiron said the student pilot will have to undergo several tests before being allowed to fly again.

The tests, which will take between six months and a year to complete, are used to test a pilot's physical capabilities.

Doiron said Liang is optimistic he'll get to complete the program.

"That's all he talks about," he said. "That's all he wants to do is get back to Fredericton and start his studies all over again. He's just cracking to get back in an airplane."

The Transportation Safety Board allowed the Moncton Flight College to conduct its own investigation into the incident. The college operates a school in Fredericton in addition to its Moncton operation.

Mike Cunningham, regional director for the Transportation Safety Board's Atlantic division, said it would be impossible for his organization to investigate every incident.

"If we did, we'd have another huge investigation, with a huge budget and that would be quite a burden on the tax-paying Canadian," he said.

"Our mandate is to investigate occurrences where we see the opportunity to enhance transportation safety. We're always able to provide advice or guidance."

At the time of the incident, two workers connected to the airport speculated that language barriers may have played some role in the incident.

Cunningham said he doesn't believe language was a factor in the crash.

"The information we have is somewhat limited because we're not conducting a full investigation," he said. "But if I could offer an opinion, if you think of the situation itself, the aircraft was about to touch down on the runway and all of a sudden the pilot ran into difficulty. At that stage of the flight, there's absolutely no communication going on whatsoever between the aircraft and the air traffic control unit, so how could it possibly play a role?"

Doiron said the college's investigation has yet to uncover any evidence that language played a role in the crash.

"Language wasn't an issue as far as we can see," he said.

"And we spend an inordinate amount of time doing English second-language training. They have to write written tests, so we're not just guessing that he understands (the course material). They have to prove to us that they understand it before they're allowed to take a plane up.

"It's not in our interest to give somebody a very expensive airplane and let them just go out there."

Doiron said the investigation is ongoing. But he expects some changes will be made to try to ensure mistakes aren't repeated.

"It usually takes between six months to a year to put one of these investigations to bed; however our preliminary indications are that it was just a bad landing," he said.

"Any time you have an incident, as part of our safety-management system, we review any kind of incident -- whether it involves injuries or damages or not -- and make adjustments to improve in any way we can. But odds are there will be some changes put in place."



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:34 pm 
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Mikey D was an investigator for transport canada, and keeps a very sharp eye on what goes on at his school. I would trust his own investigation as much as any TSB report.

Hope he pulls through. With the amount of flights through MFC, its all a numbers game to accidents happening. Lets hope they're minor and non lethal.

safe flying


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:37 pm 
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I doubt very much he will ever fly again.

TC is very strict on head injuries, I had a friend who was in a bad car crash with me who damaged their skull less than what this guy has done, and TC told him he'd never hold a medical ever again, years of appeals led to nothing for him.

Reason: You might be prone to seizures.

Even though after 10 years as far as I know, he's never had one.



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