Global Pilot Shortange a Looming Crisis in Canada

Captain_Canuck · Post by **Captain_Canuck** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:01 am

A recent story on the CBC!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/2 ... rtage.html

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:38 am

Global Pilot Shortange a Looming Crisis in Canada

I know of two Global pilots that may be looking for jobs right now.

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:48 am

Siddley Hawker wrote:
Global Pilot Shortange a Looming Crisis in Canada
I know of two Global pilots that may be looking for jobs right now.

harsh!

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:49 am

But atleast CBC addressed the low-salary problem...most who write articles like this try to turn it into a marketing ploy. High cost to train...followed by years of crap pay....its something you have to love to put up with.

vortac · Post by **vortac** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:52 am

The airlines have shot themselves in the foot. No single person is at fault, just modern corporate mentality. To save, siphon and to test their workforce. To see for just how little they are willing to work for. It turns out this had more implications than just looking good the quarterly shareholder reports.

In the end, the managers who thought it was a good idea to implement 30-40K starting salaries to pilots with literally thousands of hours experience they demand, probably got a few thousand dollar bonus at the end of the yr for the "savings" they generated. Ultimately cheapening their own industry.

Jazz has decided to shoot itself in the foot multiple times. In the past they tested and found out they could recruit and pay experienced pilots WELL below what they are worth (50% pay cuts for most in the groundschools). Now they recruit pilots with NO experience. It will be even easier to pay less!

What's sly about it all is how they suckered ALPA into it. Now they're representing inexperienced pilots. What's ALPA going to do, drive management to fairer wages, when the pilots they represent still have acne and live with their parents? Right.

These 200hr (insert expletive here) should be out trying to make themselves worth something in this industry before taking this job. Instead they are a tool for the ones trying to get a petty bonus at the end of the yr.

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:53 am

Or, Jazz realizes there is a shortage of pilots and hired a handfull of college grads as a test bed to see if they could do it in the future.

And this has nothing to do with wages, I'm sure the "kids" want a decent wage and they deserve to have it like the rest of their professional peers.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:36 pm

whipline wrote:Or, Jazz realizes there is a shortage of pilots and hired a handfull of college grads as a test bed to see if they could do it in the future.

And this has nothing to do with wages, I'm sure the "kids" want a decent wage and they deserve to have it like the rest of their professional peers.

You can bet that upper management at jazz and any other company that hires low timers will make sure this is more then just a test bed, thing.
I also wonder if the wages will not just keep going down.

THEICEMAN · Post by **THEICEMAN** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:48 pm

Corriveau said that an airline in the U.S. last month had to cancel four per cent of its flights because no flight crews were available. He worries for the future of pilots at home.

"I think those problems will come to Canada," he said.

Question:

+The industry job market is crazy as it is. Will it get even crazier?

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:33 pm

First off "test bed" = if the candidates do well they will keep doing it. I would bet that the "kids" are kicking ass and the program will be a success.

Pay is up to the pilot group. They can agree to what the companies offers of they can say no. It has nothing to do with hiring "kids."

Iceman I would say this is just the beginning and will continue to get crazier. I get emails weekly for jobs around the globe, companies are already hurting for flight crews.

MrWings · Post by **MrWings** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:59 pm

vortac wrote:These 200hr (insert expletive here) should be out trying to make themselves worth something in this industry before taking this job.

You come out of flight training with 200hrs and someone offers you a job on a Dash 8.

Who would say, "no thanks, I'd rather go work the dock up North for a year and build some character"?

So things are easier for the kids now. Is it their fault? I know I would have preferred a break when I was starting out.

The thing that hasn't changed is the crap pay when you start out.

YYC the place to be · Post by **YYC the place to be** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:37 pm

This SIMPLE!!!! problem doesn't take a expert to figure out how to fix.

Pilots get more money...problem solved.

increace ticket prices less people fly no need for more pilots....problem solved

Stupid people

"Oh no pilot sortage" no not really just a sortage of guys and gals willing to sell there soul for a shine jet.

something that is sitting right in front of people but they are so clueless

RVR6000 · Post by **RVR6000** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:38 pm

"With the advent of low-fare airlines, really you've just become a glorified bus-driver," Tompkins said.

vortac · Post by **vortac** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:00 pm

MrWings wrote:So things are easier for the kids now. Is it their fault? I know I would have preferred a break when I was starting out.

The thing that hasn't changed is the crap pay when you start out.

No it's not their fault. They took the offer because the offer was impossible to pass up. We all know this. (In fact congratulations to the lucky 8, your hard work and lots of luck has paid off).

The reality is, the implications of their employment WILL affect us all negatively, including the 200 hr bunch. Wages in this WILL stay and/or even fall at embaressing levels.

The pilot group will never make starting wages a priority simply because they are already the pilot group. The unions dropped the ball years ago when they gave concessions on the new hires.

moocow · Post by **moocow** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:05 pm

Let's just say that without a cadet program like the one offer by Cathay Pacific, training to be a commercial pilot is financially illogical. Hell, I even got an annualized wage of 30K to 32K working as a co-op student doing copy and paste in MS Office that don't even use up 25% of my brains. Supply & Demand should favour pilots but the airlines are creating their own supplies to meet their own demands. I guess if I can't get into the program, just get a desk job and fly on the weekend. May even be able to afford my own plane faster that way.

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:11 pm

So who is to blame for low starting wages at Jazz? The company or the pilots? And how does hiring "kids" affect this?

They could hire monkeys at my company and it still would't change the wages. They were negotiated and agreed on by the pilot group, so I dont see how age affects wage?

From what you just wrote are you trying to say that the pilot group will screw over the new hires to get better wages for the more senior pilots? If so thats your own pilots doing the screwing, not the company and certainly not the "kids."

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:44 pm

whipline wrote:
From what you just wrote are you trying to say that the pilot group will screw over the new hires to get better wages for the more senior pilots? If so thats your own pilots doing the screwing, not the company and certainly not the "kids."

....something like that.

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:58 pm

Many years ago(and I am speaking of the early-mid and late 70’s) that well known down east airline – Eastern Provincial Airlines hired many pilots with what was known as a Senior Commercial License(700 hrs) and a class 1 instrument rating to fly the dart herald(roughly same as a DHC-8). Most came from the flying clubs because that is where you got your IFR to instruct. Remember there was no sim training, just get into the a/c and blast off. Most made out quite good and progressed on to the B737 no problems.
As you big retirements, well that was always being said every year since I started in the mid-70’s!!!!

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:21 pm

ATTENTION! ATTENTION!
THE PILOT SHORTAGE IS ALMOST UPON US!

lol

F,D and H · Post by **F,D and H** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:47 pm

With the advent of low-fare airlines, really you've just become a glorified bus-driver," Tompkins said.

But we ARE just glorified bus-drivers...

And Mr Wings if your idea of 35g's in this industry as shity pay for a start, well lets just say I'm 7 years in and I barelly make that...

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:41 pm

F,D and H wrote:
With the advent of low-fare airlines, really you've just become a glorified bus-driver," Tompkins said.
But we ARE just glorified bus-drivers...

And Mr Wings if your idea of 35g's in this industry as shity pay for a start, well lets just say I'm 7 years in and I barelly make that...

if by '7 years in' u mean 7 years of commercial flying experience...

ouch...barely @ 35K?

sad...the things we do for this job