Pay For Training (PPC) in Ontario

[Hedley]

The recent skydive thread got me thinking ...

According the new Private Career College Act
in Ontario, anyone providing "vocational training"
must be registered with the province to do so.

This is a very expensive and time-consuming
process, and has resulted in many flight schools
in Ontario dropping Commercial and Instructor
training. Personally, I find this greatly upsetting,
but apparently Transport and COPA think it's
great. Well, whatever.

But every black cloud has a silver lining. According
to this new, demented Private Career College
Act, OC holders in Ontario can no longer charge
for "vocational training" (eg training towards PPC)
unless they register as a "Private Career College"
as per the Ontario act, which due to the onerous
requirements, certainly will NOT.

Here's the deal. You PM me the name of
any OC holder you know of (eg Skydive)
that charges for training in any way, shape
or form, and I will contact this very obnoxious
civil servant in Toronto, who completely
blew me off when I talked to her about
the new Act shutting down flight schools.

Well, what's sauce for the goose is sauce
for the gander. Any operator in Ontario
that dares to charge for PPC training is now
in violation of the Career College Act which
is a serious offence.

I love it! For once, we can use these
power-drunk bureaucrats for an (admittedly
unintended) good use.

Does anyone else like irony with their coffee?

This is gonna be fun ...

[. .]

Skydive Toronto is the name I believe.

What's the new name of the nextjet reincarnation in london now that was selling pa-31 ppcs?

[Rowdy]

Thats frickin awesome!! Hedley.. GREAT idea!

[Northern Skies]

wow, that's the best idea i've ever heard on here. Spread the word!

[Spokes]

[Spokes]

Could a training bond be considdered paying for training?

[l_reason]

Hedley are you are out to impress us today?

nice work!

[Conquest Driver]

Could a training bond be considdered paying for training?

Sure could

Has some possibilities.

[fougapilot]

Could a training bond be considdered paying for training?

Sure could

Has some possibilities.

Mmmmm,

Debatable.

The act was created to protect people who fork out $$ up front in exchange for training. Kinda like a now defunct airline that had a big happy face on their airplane...

In a training bond, you agree to stay a specific amount of time. Should you leave before the end of the contract, you need to reimburse the Cie for $$ THEY have spent on you. Slight difference. I AM NOT SAYING TRAINING BONDS ARE A GOOD THING!!! I, like most out there, hate them and never signed one.

I am simply saying the bonds MAY not interest the Provincial Gov as much as the guy who needs the $$ up front.

my 2 cents

F

[Dust Devil]

I could see some problems with this for smaller operators such as myself. Because of the limited availability of my aircraft to be taken off line for training and PPC flights I've been looking into the option of contracting to another operator to get the PPC's done. Essentially I would be buying a PPC for my pilots. Now to be clear the pilots don't pay a cent. it is covered by the company.

[rigpiggy]

Hey Hedley, Lowageur Airlines, go get him boy.

[Liquid Charlie]

I can see subsidiaries in Winnipeg and Val D'or

[Guido]

Hedley, I don't know of any offhand, but if I hear of any you'll be the first to know. Pure genius, sir!

[BoostedNihilist]

.

[Louis]

Hedley's saying that pay-for-PPC outfits operating in Ontario are violating a provincial law that was passed recently.

This law (the Private Career College Act) requires anyone providing "vocational training" to be registered with the province.
Which is a complicated, lengthy and very costly process. To the point that many flight schools have stopped giving CPL and instructor rating. (Floats, IFR and multi all being available to private pilots, they are not "vocational" in this context.)

So we've got the following recipe:
1 Greedy low-life "pay-for-PPC" outfit in ON
+ Private Career College Act
- proper registration (not done because $$$$)
+ complaint from a citizen
= "pay-for-PPC" in major trouble: violations of this act carry severe penalties

Is that clearer?

Goodbye,

Louis

[Hedley]

I've read the initial post like five times and can't understand it

Sorry, man. You get so immersed in the government
double-speak and baffle-gab that after a while, it actually
starts to make sense (gasp) and you start sounding
like an Assistant Deputy Minister

I will try to detox by not reading the CARs, FARs or Aeronautics
Act for the next 24 hours. I will not contact the Tribunal for a
further 72 hours despite that a 30 day deadline on filing an
Appeal for Review is looming. In true Catholic form, as exculpation,
I will break an antenna off a car in the parking lot and whip myself
with it for the next continuous 48 hours, with no sleep or
even pee breaks, even if it gives me a urinary infection.

[BoostedNihilist]

.

[pushyboss]

The "greedy low life ppc outfit" you speak of wouldn't have any business if it were not for us pilots.....

It's easy to pick on slimey operators but as an industry we need to look in the mirror sometimes as well. I'm just sayin.....

[Guido]

The "greedy low life ppc outfit" you speak of wouldn't have any business if it were not for us pilots.....

It's easy to pick on slimey operators but as an industry we need to look in the mirror sometimes as well. I'm just sayin.....

You're right, but the geniuses who tend to go and pay for a PPC refuse to look in that mirror... The rest of the industry already knows that it's bad news.

[. .]

I could see some problems with this for smaller operators such as myself. Because of the limited availability of my aircraft to be taken off line for training and PPC flights I've been looking into the option of contracting to another operator to get the PPC's done. Essentially I would be buying a PPC for my pilots. Now to be clear the pilots don't pay a cent. it is covered by the company.

It won't effect you because you're not located within Ontario. I wouldn't imagine you'd contract the PPC work out to Ontario when there'd be many much more local options.

[Spokes]

Mmmmm,

Debatable.

The act was created to protect people who fork out $$ up front in exchange for training. Kinda like a now defunct airline that had a big happy face on their airplane...

In a training bond, you agree to stay a specific amount of time. Should you leave before the end of the contract, you need to reimburse the Cie for $$ THEY have spent on you. Slight difference. I AM NOT SAYING TRAINING BONDS ARE A GOOD THING!!! I, like most out there, hate them and never signed one.

I am simply saying the bonds MAY not interest the Provincial Gov as much as the guy who needs the $$ up front.

my 2 cents

F

It seems to me that the way these training bonds sometimes seem to work (I say seems, because I have never paid one), the Vocational training act, it could be argued is in existance because of these types issue.

I didn't say that well, so I will give an example. This Vocational training act was set up to protect people from paying for some schooling required to earn a livining, only to have the school close out from under them and they would be left without money or training. This act (I think) collects money from all vocational training outfits to help someone left in this predicament.

Now rewind to Jetsgo. I am not an expert on that situation, but from what I have read here on AvCanada, some people paid big money (30k$ ?) to train to fly their jets. Company folded out from under them, and they were all screwed. The only thing I am not sure of, and I am sure someone else here can help me, is that if anyone paid for this training, and did not get it, or was everyone out (just?) a job. Whether or not this was the case in this situation is not really all that important. It could have played out that way, and so the Vocational Training Act comes into play. (again, I think it would anyway).

My $.02

[pokaroo]

Hmmmm I couldn't find Navcanada on that list...................

[Hedley]

By george, you're right. Doesn't NavCan now
charge for evaluation & training?

This is fantastic! The Ontario gov't is going to
charge NavCan with operating a "private
career college"!

I just love it when the government fights with
itself. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about
all the taxes we pay.

[CD]

Maybe that is why NavCanada is going to stop all training at the institution formerly known as NCTI...

[lilfssister]

You beat me to it CD!