Piston Engines quiting on the runway!

captain-Dudley · Post by **captain-Dudley** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:23 pm

I flew an old baron the other day and, would you know it, the left engine idled out just as I was clearing the runway,,

Well let me tell you I felt like the worlds biggest dope!! ( there was people watching!)

Does this happen alot with the bigger piston engines?? I've really only flown turbines for the last 15 years (I learned to fly in the CF) and I dont seem to remember it happening all the often in primary training..

Happy flying.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:19 pm

there's a good chance you need a new Fuel Servo....i have had that happen a couple times over the years, and both times it was a problematic fuel servo...(throttle body and associated parts). What engine is that in the Baron?

I wouldn't say it is common, though, no. It should be looked at.

-wp

C-FOXY · Post by **C-FOXY** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:01 am

We've had that happen here too, but have always been told by maintenance that the mixtures need to be adjusted to compensate for the change in temperature (summer - winter) (winter - summer). Seems to work.

... · Post by **...** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:48 am

Maybe you're Pist 'n' broke?

JigglyBus · Post by **JigglyBus** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:42 am

Actually yes, it is somewhat common.

I don't mean common as in 'keep flying that way' common, but common as in a number of small factors can cause this.

Like someone mentioned a bad servo would do it. So would a bad mag (or two), a few bad spark plugs, idle mixture out a bit, idle setting out, clogged intake (filter etc), clogged fuel filter, low fuel pressure etc etc etc.

You can see it coming when you come to a stop after landing, the rpm will tumble down, and if you don't add a touch of throttle, it'll stall.

It's a little embarassing if you let it actually stall, but it's easy to prevent.

If it does just tell the pax that you were doing a periodic check for a live mag, and everything checked out ok.

They won't have any idea what you just said anyways.

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:48 am

Happened to me once too, but was because someone forgot to tighten a fuel line the night before during an inspection.

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:24 pm

Was this at a high altitude airport? Be sure to lean the mixtures - maybe you were too rich. Easy to foul the plugs under those conditions.

Tail hook · Post by **Tail hook** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:56 pm

Sounds like change idle fuel pressure/mixture needs adjusting on your Clunkinental engine. While your at it have all fuel system pressures set or checked. I usually leave the mixtures quite lean throughout approach and landing to prevent the engine quiting on rollout when idle pressure is to high. You can check idle pressure & mixture by setting about 8-900 rpm and shut down slowly with miture & watch RPM rise before it quits.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:22 pm

The 310 I flew did that on hot days. Had to keep the fuel pumps running for a while after landing (vapour lock I think it's called). The Baron I flew had the 470 engines, and although I don't remember it quitting on me on the ground (or ever) keeping pumps on low couldn't hurt.

PS I loved that plane. If I ever win the 649...

corn-shoot · Post by **corn-shoot** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:08 pm

I am Birddog wrote:Maybe you're Pist 'n' broke?

Birddog, maybe you're dumb.

... · Post by **...** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:59 pm

corn-shoot wrote:
I am Birddog wrote:Maybe you're Pist 'n' broke?

Birddog, maybe you're dumb.

CORN SHOOT

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:16 pm

Old IO-470 Continentals were notorious for this if they were not tuned properly. Very embarassing. I believe some of the procedures ATC still use are based on part because of this problem. Modern engines, and old carbeurated engines were ok. Newer fuel injections are also ok. Turbines are ok except for the RR Dart and with those engines, if the Flight Fine Pitch Lock did not retract on landing, you had to shut down the engine while still on the runway. And that may mean both engines. Had to do that once (in the sim).

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:22 pm

I've learned the hard way to add power after touchdown to keep that from happening, even with the mixtures up and the pumps still on it's been known to happen. Very frustrating when it does.

captain-Dudley · Post by **captain-Dudley** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:53 am

SD,,

What did you "learn" to avoid this,, I have to fly the old girl again next week and I dont want to look like a fool again.. (especially in front of ex-higher ranking officers!)

CD

bezerker · Post by **bezerker** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:01 pm

On the 421 I flew, if you brought the mixtures up to full rich for landing, the engines would conk out every time the rpm's dropped to idle as you rolled out. To end the insightful comments from passengers, such as "I guess we just landed in time", etc. I wouldn't enrichen the mixtures too much on the descent, and I would keep the power up a bit from the stops on roll out if I was able. I know that the engines are different from yours and maybe they were not tuned properly or something, but it worked for me. On a hot day it was amazing how much you could lean that thing out on the ground before the engines started to sputter. I would take note of where they would sputter on taxi for departure and use that as a rough guide for setting the mixtures on landing, of course adding a bit for grandma. Also keep in mind where the mixture is if you need full power for a go around or something.

Good luck.

JigglyBus · Post by **JigglyBus** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:27 pm

I think the simple answer is to just add a bit of throttle. Yes, the leaner mixtures will help too, but I think it's easier just to keep an ear out for when they start to tumble down, and give 'em a little shot of throttle.

And then of course have an AME make some adjustments when you have time.

I'd tell you to do it yourself, but I'd get flamed on this forum.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:54 pm

Capt Dudley, do exactly what jiggly said; once the airplane is down and staying there, I add a bit of power to keep em from spooling down on me. It can be a bit entertaining when you're given a land and hold short clearance making the turn onto the taxiway but it beats having tower ranting at you for being stopped with your engines off and trying to get em restarted!