I used to here this guy correcting people on the air, everytime he heard someone say "oh" instead of "zero" what a joke that was with the majority of pilots I knew and worked with
I pride myself on proper phraseology, and yet I prefer to use "oh" vs. "zero" It is quicker, allowing for better communication on busy frequencies. Has nothing to do with laziness or incompetence. But there is definately a line between sloppy radio work and professional radio work. Although, from reading other posts on here I think I'm going to try and break that habit, as I didn't realize in other 'non english' places people wouldn't understand the "Oh"
Now lets go get a "two-FOWer" LOL
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Last edited by Anti-Ice on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lost Lake wrote:
Ever hear ATC say oh??
Yup (yes).
Oh, and I have to fly a machine at flight levels with only 2 hands and 2 feet, no autopilot.
+2
Still just my pet peeve for the day
To each there own. If it bothers you, it bothers you. My pet peeve is "XYZ squak ident", to which the pilot replies "here's the flash". For real? You actually flashed someone?
Used to say "oh" when I flew in Canada and the States, and used to say other things slang on the radio.
Then started working overseas and nobody understood me, and realized my RT was crap.
"oh" is fine if you stay in N.Am but venture outside to the rest of the world and you'd better get your RT up to scratch, so the earlier and more standard you are from the start (old dog new tricks, bad habits hard to break)the easier things will be when you have a Russian, Asian, European controller asking you to constantly "say again", beacuase some of them don't speak a lick of English except for stanard RT, so anything other than standart RT and you've lost them. Saying things correctly once is shorter than having to say the same thing twice because you weren't standard, and even if you know what you mean, and so does the controller, that Korean crew who just flew 13 hours and is right behind you might not have a clue what you meant.
By the way the rest of the world looks at North Americans (mainly yanks) as having the worst RT, and I'm told this everytime I'm checked on the line and Sim, by a non North American, before I even open my mouth on the radio. "You North American's and your sloppy RT". Guess it could be because we aren't taught it properly from the get go, got a heart beat and can press a PTT then here's you Restricted Radio Telephoney thinging-ma-bob. Rest of the world has to study the RT manula and write extensive exams.
Just think of it this way you saying "oh" on the radio is like starting to spell favour, labour, with just an or at the end. Now there would be an uproar about that not being right.
I'm tired now
Bleed Air wrote:Used to say "oh" when I flew in Canada and the States, and used to say other things slang on the radio.
Then started working overseas and nobody understood me, and realized my RT was crap.
"oh" is fine if you stay in N.Am but venture outside to the rest of the world and you'd better get your RT up to scratch, so the earlier and more standard you are from the start (old dog new tricks, bad habits hard to break)the easier things will be when you have a Russian, Asian, European controller asking you to constantly "say again", beacuase some of them don't speak a lick of English except for stanard RT, so anything other than standart RT and you've lost them. Saying things correctly once is shorter than having to say the same thing twice because you weren't standard, and even if you know what you mean, and so does the controller, that Korean crew who just flew 13 hours and is right behind you might not have a clue what you meant.
By the way the rest of the world looks at North Americans (mainly yanks) as having the worst RT, and I'm told this everytime I'm checked on the line and Sim, by a non North American, before I even open my mouth on the radio. "You North American's and your sloppy RT". Guess it could be because we aren't taught it properly from the get go, got a heart beat and can press a PTT then here's you Restricted Radio Telephoney thinging-ma-bob. Rest of the world has to study the RT manula and write extensive exams.
Just think of it this way you saying "oh" on the radio is like starting to spell favour, labour, with just an or at the end. Now there would be an uproar about that not being right.
I'm tired now
Its amazing how we haven't all run into each other with such confusion
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It's similar to people calling level at fl 060 -- instead of 60 -- but then again one can call levels 3-80 -- 3 hundred -- as they do in Europe -- lets face it -- it's all about style -- haha
Cat Driver wrote:STL, you gotta drop by one of these days.....I'm working on a FMS with a real neat multi color touch screen for helicopter long lining and heli logging.
It is powered by the glow of the pilots gold stripes shining on the screen.
Sounds like a great idea Cat,
But getting a long line pilot to wear bars??? That's where you're going to run into issues! As for the logging side, if you can get it powered by ego, you might be onto something...!
I might try to pop in next weekend, could be driving up your way from Vic, I'll let you know.
I am 100% with rockie on this one. If you cant get your radio work correct, what else are you doing wrong?
And as one other poster put it...if you accept sub standard , you will get substandard..let me add a corrollary
If you accpt in your self subsatndard, you will become substandard.
For years and years I have checked out pilots.. there is a co-relation between sloppy radio work and general flying ability.
It might be something for those who think "so what?" to give some thought about.
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Hoov wrote:
Its amazing how we haven't all run into each other with such confusion
Actually, it's happened. I'm not claiming to be the perfect radio operator, but the use of slang has in the past created assumptions being made by the receiver of the message causing confusion and loss of situational awareness as a result. Classic example is the use of "for"/"four" and "to"/"two", such as
"cleared to four hundred feet" and "Cleared two four hundred feet".
Okay sure, saying "23 - oh" instead of "23 zero" over Edmonton won't cause a mid-air, but it things people say like "as long as the point gets across" that scare me...who are you to decide how the receiver of the message will get the point? Sticking to proper terminology that we all know and understand keeps us all on the same page.
So explain to me how they can do multilingual stuff in let's sat CYUL and get away with it??? I've never felt as lost as when everybody around me speaks a different language. I am not about to learn french, just to be clear on that!
Hoov wrote:
Its amazing how we haven't all run into each other with such confusion
Actually, it's happened. I'm not claiming to be the perfect radio operator, but the use of slang has in the past created assumptions being made by the receiver of the message causing confusion and loss of situational awareness as a result. Classic example is the use of "for"/"four" and "to"/"two", such as
"cleared to four hundred feet" and "Cleared two four hundred feet".
Okay sure, saying "23 - oh" instead of "23 zero" over Edmonton won't cause a mid-air, but it things people say like "as long as the point gets across" that scare me...who are you to decide how the receiver of the message will get the point? Sticking to proper terminology that we all know and understand keeps us all on the same page.
RSC. Being a frenchman, I can tell you why I think "as long as your point comes across". I really make a concius effort to use proper terminology to eliminate the accent side of things. However, when I use Tree (vice the real tHree) for 3, ATC often come back to me to confirm what I just said. Some think I say two.
Who am I to decide the messag will get across? From my experience, what I use gets the point across. Like not using Tree as it mostly confuse people.
Flyboy757 wrote:Proper R/T using the correct phonetics................... FL 230 two three zero.....not two three oh USofA bad for this and we have let it creep in to our practices. 0 is a # O is a letter.
Actually, Zero is the number "Oscar" is the letter, and "OH" is an expression of surprise, wonder, amazement or awe. So I suppose "Two Three OH!" might be appropriate if you were truly surprised and amazed that you finally got cleared to your requested altitude.
AuxBatOn wrote:
RSC. Being a frenchman, I can tell you why I think "as long as your point comes across". I really make a concius effort to use proper terminology to eliminate the accent side of things. However, when I use Tree (vice the real tHree) for 3, ATC often come back to me to confirm what I just said. Some think I say two.
Who am I to decide the messag will get across? From my experience, what I use gets the point across. Like not using Tree as it mostly confuse people.
I hear what you're saying, you're getting your point across
I'm speaking from the world of ATC that doesn't know any english outside of standard radio terminology. In that situation straying from standard phraseology can sometimes get ATC to make assumptions about what you mean (rather than them confirming you mean what they think) and you get yourself into trouble.
I notice here in Canada, pilots use slang, and ATC do a pretty good job at sticking to standard phraseology to keep things in order, whereas in the dark continent or other similar places, ATC uses poor phraseology, and it's up to the pilots to stick to standard terminology to keep things in order.
Seem to recall that Lost Lake is a "new FO" and hasn't been 'on top' that long...maybe he should get back down to 15 oh oh and let the rest of us handle the flight levels. (or is that 1 point 5 which isn't 'correct' either)
Well, I am declaring tomorrow, September the first, NATIONAL "o' day.
Yep, all day tomorrow I am going to use O instead of zero. I encourage everyone else to do it also.
I am betting that there will be no cunfusion or problems with ATC?
And as a little aside, it seems to me as of just recently, that the pilots in the north (above the tree line)are really using proper RT.
Not exactly sure why , but a huge improvement on ETA's, etc..Makes me proud to be a pilot again.
Oh, we still get the 060 flt level, and "we are at the top of the descent" (not sure exactly what that means but I heard it repeated about 4 times the other day. But in general it seems people are making good radio calls that are 5x5.
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Bleed Air wrote:By the way the rest of the world looks at North Americans (mainly yanks[sic]) as having the worst RT, and I'm told this everytime[sic] I'm checked on the line and Sim, by a non-North American, before I even open my mouth on the radio. "You North American's[sic] and your sloppy RT". Guess it could be because we aren't taught it properly from the get-go, got a heart beat and can press a PTT then here's you Restricted Radio Telephoney[sic] thinging-ma-bob. Rest of the world has to study the RT manula[sic] and write extensive exams.
Just think of it this way you saying "oh" on the radio is like starting to spell favour, labour, with just an or at the end. Now there would be an uproar about that not being right.
I would imagine it to be difficult to get used to spelling out the second syllable "-or." I have had less difficulty, however, in getting used to reading back "taxi to the gate" at a busy American airport when clearing the active runway.
We North Americans are also notorious for awarding High School Diplomas before the written English language has been mastered.
I use the term two three oh for flight levels, and I use the term two three zero for headings. I know it's incorrect, but I really think it really IS the better way. I would prevent confusion in the event an aircraft is cleared to, lets say......"Turn to two five zero, and maintain two three oh."
Sometimes, the way it USED to be just makes more sense.
I used to here this guy correcting people on the air, everytime he heard someone say "oh" instead of "zero" what a joke that was with the majority of pilots I knew and worked with
