Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by Chuck Ellsworth » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:12 pm

Scary country. Scary government.
Few in aviation realize just how scary the system really is.

We as citizens are brought before a court if we break the law.

Those at the top level of the regulator can and do ignore the law if it suits their agenda at the time.

When found guilty they suffer no consequences and their pay and bonuses just keep right on being payed.
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The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.

B-rad
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by B-rad » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:21 pm

C-GGGQ wrote:
patter wrote:Why do you need to file them? Certainly not to get yourself in trouble.
But if you are denied access to airspace.
Or if the airport you flew had no fuel and there was no notam.
There are animals on a remote runway with regularity.
The lights blink on and off at night.
Nav Canada is rude to you.
Your flight plan gets lost even though you filed it.
The corridor you fly in is too congested.
There are vehicles on your runway that won't get off.
The gate codes don't work.
There are rocks from the crumbling concrete on the taxiways.
The runway is icy and no one notamed it.

I could be mistaken but I don't think CADORS cover things like that.
so your saying the pilots have no voice? there is only a system in place to point fingers at pilots? yes your right.. we pilots are the only ones at fault..i bet even if planes could fly themselves we would still have a job because someone needs to take the blame..
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kevenv
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by kevenv » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:43 am

B-rad wrote:so your saying the pilots have no voice? there is only a system in place to point fingers at pilots? yes your right.. we pilots are the only ones at fault..i bet even if planes could fly themselves we would still have a job because someone needs to take the blame..
Have a complaint about something? Anything? Call the shift manager of the ACC that you are in. Speaking from experience, when a pilot complains about something to the shift manager, they jump on the complaint and investigate it right away. Everything is recorded, from phones and frequencies to radar data. We can't hide anything we did. Despite what some may think, there is not a conspiracy to cover anything up.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:32 am

B-rad wrote:
so your saying the pilots have no voice? there is only a system in place to point fingers at pilots? yes your right.. we pilots are the only ones at fault..i bet even if planes could fly themselves we would still have a job because someone needs to take the blame..
I don't think CADORs are meant to be a complaint system. I think that's what he meant. It's for aviation accident/incidents.
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jackrabbit
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by jackrabbit » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:32 am

My understanding is that Nav Can. and airports will soon be tied into the SMS system. So if you have a complaint about the door codes or misfiled notams, etc. You will simply file your company ops report and SMS should insure that it gets to the right place to be rectified.
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B-rad
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by B-rad » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:29 pm

AuxBatOn wrote:
B-rad wrote:
so your saying the pilots have no voice? there is only a system in place to point fingers at pilots? yes your right.. we pilots are the only ones at fault..i bet even if planes could fly themselves we would still have a job because someone needs to take the blame..
I don't think CADORs are meant to be a complaint system. I think that's what he meant. It's for aviation accident/incidents.

right.. and again.. all incidents are the pilots fault?how about a scenario where two aircraft are converging and FSS doesn't pass the traffic within the zone... now forget all the bs about having your good look out and so on. you dont always see em and FSS is there to do a job aswell. it's shared responsiblity. now if you had a near miss, its a cadors against the pilots. wheres the cadors against the FSS aswell? what if they didnt pass the traffic because for many reasons that could be they tie up the frequency so much that pilots can not even make a call or confirm with FSS where the traffic is?? you think this doesn't/ hasn't happen? it's shared responsibility so where is the cadors against FSS?

I appreciate the advice of tell the manager of nav can/ops manager/chief pilot. I have been told there can be quite a punishment to a FSS for having such an incident against them. a lot less then a pilot faces with a cadors. i would rather just give them a cadors then get them in trouble. As for talking to them in person about how poor they manage the frequency, who wants to cause conflict face to face?
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Pygmie
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by Pygmie » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:39 pm

B-rad wrote:
AuxBatOn wrote:
B-rad wrote:
so your saying the pilots have no voice? there is only a system in place to point fingers at pilots? yes your right.. we pilots are the only ones at fault..i bet even if planes could fly themselves we would still have a job because someone needs to take the blame..
I don't think CADORs are meant to be a complaint system. I think that's what he meant. It's for aviation accident/incidents.

right.. and again.. all incidents are the pilots fault?how about a scenario where two aircraft are converging and FSS doesn't pass the traffic within the zone... now forget all the bs about having your good look out and so on. you dont always see em and FSS is there to do a job aswell. it's shared responsiblity. now if you had a near miss, its a cadors against the pilots. wheres the cadors against the FSS aswell? what if they didnt pass the traffic because for many reasons that could be they tie up the frequency so much that pilots can not even make a call or confirm with FSS where the traffic is?? you think this doesn't/ hasn't happen? it's shared responsibility so where is the cadors against FSS?

I appreciate the advice of tell the manager of nav can/ops manager/chief pilot. I have been told there can be quite a punishment to a FSS for having such an incident against them. a lot less then a pilot faces with a cadors. i would rather just give them a cadors then get them in trouble. As for talking to them in person about how poor they manage the frequency, who wants to cause conflict face to face?
If you look through the cadors, there are many filed for FSS and ATC errors.
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CD
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by CD » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:55 pm

The following are the options available when submitting a report:
Accidental Death or Serious Injury
Aircraft Accident
Aircraft Evacuation Due to Potential Hazard
Aircraft Hijacking
Aircraft Incident
Alleged Regulatory Infraction
Bird Strike/Wildlife Intrusion
Bomb Threat/Bomb Found
Dangerous Goods Spill Affecting Operations
ERS Response
Fuel Spill/Major Environmental Incident Affecting Operations
Glider Operations Incidents
High Profile or Media Sensitive
Hostage Taking
Item Intentionally Dropped from Aircraft/Balloon/Airship
Labour Dispute Affecting Operations
Major System or Structural Failure Affecting Operations
Missing Aircraft/SAR
Other
Parachute Related Serious Injuries/Fatalities
Significant Building or Equipment Fire
Terrorist Activities
Unauthorized Incursion
Unavailability of a Runway
Unruly Passenger Incidents
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lilfssister
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Re: Pilots need to learn how to file CADORS

Post by lilfssister » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:14 pm

B-rad wrote: right.. and again.. all incidents are the pilots fault?how about a scenario where two aircraft are converging and FSS doesn't pass the traffic within the zone... now forget all the bs about having your good look out and so on. you dont always see em and FSS is there to do a job aswell. it's shared responsiblity. now if you had a near miss, its a cadors against the pilots. wheres the cadors against the FSS aswell? what if they didnt pass the traffic because for many reasons that could be they tie up the frequency so much that pilots can not even make a call or confirm with FSS where the traffic is?? you think this doesn't/ hasn't happen? it's shared responsibility so where is the cadors against FSS?

I appreciate the advice of tell the manager of nav can/ops manager/chief pilot. I have been told there can be quite a punishment to a FSS for having such an incident against them. a lot less then a pilot faces with a cadors. i would rather just give them a cadors then get them in trouble. As for talking to them in person about how poor they manage the frequency, who wants to cause conflict face to face?
You won't likely see or hear the results but there are internal investigstions done constantly. Any CADOR where ATS is being provided, the recordings are listened to and if it is determined we did anything wrong, there are varying degrees of invstigations done. The results can be to change our rules, or procedures, or can result in suspension or being fired in some cases.
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