Just saw a news headline about a strike of some sort at Air Canada. Dozens of flights delayed or cancelled. Hmmm Whats going down? Does anyone know.... Bring it on!!! Lets get that idiot Milton out of this industry in Canada so we all have a chance at survival.
Anyone have any detail. I may be full of shit and not have a clue what I am talking about.... just saw the news flash..... educate me!
Air Canada Strike
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North Shore
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Here's the news item from Sympatico/MSN news:
Walkout freezes Air Canada's Toronto operations
CTV.ca News Staff
A labour dispute at Air Canada over alleged time card abuse has effectively brought the airline's operations at Toronto's Pearson International Airport to a standstill.
The dispute apparently involves the airline's baggage handlers who called in sick en masse. The situation has been simmering for two or three days, CTV's Mike Duffy reported from the airport.
"They came on the P.A. system and announced Flight so-and-so would not be flying because of a manpower shortage," Duffy said.
Air Canada confirmed there is a labour dispute and that its flights out of Pearson are suspended.
Passengers who were planning to fly out of Pearson Wednesday night were urged to call Air Canada first at 1-888-422-7533 or visit the company's website.
Bill Trbovitch -- a spokesman for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, which represents 11,000 Air Canada workers, including ground crews -- told The Canadian Press the dispute was over how workers punch out at the end of a shift.
"We know that it is over a long-standing issue,'' he said, adding employees weren't expected to return to their jobs on Wednesday night.
CFTO's Graham Richardson reported that up to 100 employees were facing disciplinary action over abusing how they signed out, with some people signing out each other out late.
Air Canada did a long investigation of this practice that included the use of hidden cameras to gather evidence.
"This was coming to a head today, in terms of firing people over this," he said. "That's when union members took it into their own hands and walked off the job and shut down the biggest airport in the country."
However, Duffy said a number of workers said the problem was a known one for years and they didn't know Air Canada was going after it now. "They say it's an uncontracted perk," he added.
The situation at the airport was a confusing one, he said, adding the ticket handlers were doing a fantastic job under the circumstances.
"There are apparently some supervisors, or maybe some non-striking union workers, who are handling some of the larger flights," Duffy said.
Besides the outgoing flights, there are no baggage crews to handle the incoming ones, he said.
"I'll bet we've got hundreds, if not thousands of people coming from international flights landing here who have no way of getting their luggage. And until they get their luggage, there's nothing that they can do," he said.
Some outbound flights have people simply sitting on planes watching movies, Duffy said.
About 60 flights have been delayed and another 19 cancelled. It isn't known where incoming flights to Toronto were landing.
Air Canada is the country's biggest airline. It emerged from bankruptcy protection on Oct. 1 after massively downsizing its workforce and extracting concessions from the remaining staff.
With reports from CTV's Mike Duffy, CFTO's Graham Richardson and files from The Canadian Press
Comment:Sheesh, coming out of bankruptcy, and going into the quietest time of the year, you've gotta wonder what all of the silly buggers involved (management and employee) are thinking. You'd think that they'd have got their stuff sorted by now...
Edited to add: Boot the managers for failing to see and correct the problems leading to this, and boot the workers for being such stupid tw@ts to wildcat a company that is struggling for market share.
Walkout freezes Air Canada's Toronto operations
CTV.ca News Staff
A labour dispute at Air Canada over alleged time card abuse has effectively brought the airline's operations at Toronto's Pearson International Airport to a standstill.
The dispute apparently involves the airline's baggage handlers who called in sick en masse. The situation has been simmering for two or three days, CTV's Mike Duffy reported from the airport.
"They came on the P.A. system and announced Flight so-and-so would not be flying because of a manpower shortage," Duffy said.
Air Canada confirmed there is a labour dispute and that its flights out of Pearson are suspended.
Passengers who were planning to fly out of Pearson Wednesday night were urged to call Air Canada first at 1-888-422-7533 or visit the company's website.
Bill Trbovitch -- a spokesman for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, which represents 11,000 Air Canada workers, including ground crews -- told The Canadian Press the dispute was over how workers punch out at the end of a shift.
"We know that it is over a long-standing issue,'' he said, adding employees weren't expected to return to their jobs on Wednesday night.
CFTO's Graham Richardson reported that up to 100 employees were facing disciplinary action over abusing how they signed out, with some people signing out each other out late.
Air Canada did a long investigation of this practice that included the use of hidden cameras to gather evidence.
"This was coming to a head today, in terms of firing people over this," he said. "That's when union members took it into their own hands and walked off the job and shut down the biggest airport in the country."
However, Duffy said a number of workers said the problem was a known one for years and they didn't know Air Canada was going after it now. "They say it's an uncontracted perk," he added.
The situation at the airport was a confusing one, he said, adding the ticket handlers were doing a fantastic job under the circumstances.
"There are apparently some supervisors, or maybe some non-striking union workers, who are handling some of the larger flights," Duffy said.
Besides the outgoing flights, there are no baggage crews to handle the incoming ones, he said.
"I'll bet we've got hundreds, if not thousands of people coming from international flights landing here who have no way of getting their luggage. And until they get their luggage, there's nothing that they can do," he said.
Some outbound flights have people simply sitting on planes watching movies, Duffy said.
About 60 flights have been delayed and another 19 cancelled. It isn't known where incoming flights to Toronto were landing.
Air Canada is the country's biggest airline. It emerged from bankruptcy protection on Oct. 1 after massively downsizing its workforce and extracting concessions from the remaining staff.
With reports from CTV's Mike Duffy, CFTO's Graham Richardson and files from The Canadian Press
Comment:Sheesh, coming out of bankruptcy, and going into the quietest time of the year, you've gotta wonder what all of the silly buggers involved (management and employee) are thinking. You'd think that they'd have got their stuff sorted by now...
Edited to add: Boot the managers for failing to see and correct the problems leading to this, and boot the workers for being such stupid tw@ts to wildcat a company that is struggling for market share.
Last edited by North Shore on Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
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complexintentions
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Holy S%^t! Am I missing something here? Having someone punch you out later to make it appear you have worked more than you did, is an "uncontracted perk?!? And then when you get caught for it, you strike in protest?!
W
T
F?!?!?
Does the name "Hudson General" not mean anything to these people? Do they not realize their well-paid union jobs can be replaced by $10/hour university kids? Do they not realize they are virtually begging for this to happen?
I thought nothing about AC's entitlement mentality could surprise me any more. But this - workers cheating their employer, then illegally striking when they get caught, all at a time when their employer is financially vulnerable - takes the freakin' cake in stupidity. I'm sick of the Walmartization of the industry, but when you hear this sh%t it almost makes you understand why a company would want to be rid of the lot of them.
W
T
F?!?!?
Does the name "Hudson General" not mean anything to these people? Do they not realize their well-paid union jobs can be replaced by $10/hour university kids? Do they not realize they are virtually begging for this to happen?
I thought nothing about AC's entitlement mentality could surprise me any more. But this - workers cheating their employer, then illegally striking when they get caught, all at a time when their employer is financially vulnerable - takes the freakin' cake in stupidity. I'm sick of the Walmartization of the industry, but when you hear this sh%t it almost makes you understand why a company would want to be rid of the lot of them.
Way to take it up the arse, AC...
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/050119/b0119168.html
Strike's over, and "no disciplinary action [will] be taken against the strikers." And we wonder why this company went bankrupt?
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/050119/b0119168.html
Strike's over, and "no disciplinary action [will] be taken against the strikers." And we wonder why this company went bankrupt?
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Canus Chinookus
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The People's Pilot
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where's Blastor with his latest news reports and stock prices when u need him??
i had to work an extra 3 hours overtime because of ac at yyz and man were those ppl ticked off...that's another couple thousand people who will never fly ac again.
i felt real bad for the baggage agents who had to deal with all these fuming pax...i saw these agents first hand taking a beating and it sure sucked to be them.
now we'll see how blastor and ac can put a positive spin on this tomorrow.
i had to work an extra 3 hours overtime because of ac at yyz and man were those ppl ticked off...that's another couple thousand people who will never fly ac again.
i felt real bad for the baggage agents who had to deal with all these fuming pax...i saw these agents first hand taking a beating and it sure sucked to be them.
now we'll see how blastor and ac can put a positive spin on this tomorrow.
Last edited by The People's Pilot on Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cat Driver
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I try and keep out of the Air Canada discussions, but this latest stupidity by a few Air Canada workers will sadly cost big time for the thousands of people both Air Canada employees and the customers who were used as pawns by a few.
Really quite sad to see such a big airline being held hostage.
Cat
Really quite sad to see such a big airline being held hostage.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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North Shore
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Ooops...it appears I was a litle harsh on the management side of things here, in light of what is now coming out. Perhaps they were taking appropriate corrective action, and it is the workers who need a double kick in the a$$.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
I'm not advocating 100% what the workers did. I don't work there but I have a close friend who is a baggage handler. Of course what we are hearing is a one sided story making the employees sound like trash. Yes it was an illeagle strike. Yes it was over an issue of people punching other people out. (time-clock) This method of getting Jim to punch Bob's card when he went down instead of Bob walking all the way there himself had been going on for 30-40 years in my understanding. Not necessarily to cheat the clock. And anyways, how do we know that things weren't perticularly slow and someone says 'ok you leave 15 mins early and I'll make sure all the work is done and I'll punch you out'. (just one case scenerio-not factual) All I'm saying is, we only have one view so far and unless we work in the conditions we can't really speculate and call the workers down. I hear AC was going to fire over 120 people for this offence. People who have been loyal employees for years. Also I'm told that this issue is one of, if not the first, that both x-Canadian and long time AC employees were united on. So it ultimetly begs the question; If the workers were so united on this issue that they risked their jobs or whatever else to stand up for themselves and each other...what does that say about the company they work for?
But then again, my opinion is uneducated as I am an outsider trying to make sense of something I hope I never have to understand....the inner workings of AC
But then again, my opinion is uneducated as I am an outsider trying to make sense of something I hope I never have to understand....the inner workings of AC
It's always better to appreciate the things you cannot have than to have the things you cannot appreciate.
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complexintentions
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I commend you for trying to stick up for your friend, and agree wholeheartedly that reporting on these issues is generally slanted one way or another, as is most reporting. Be that as it may, I highly doubt that any media source not wanting to have their asses sued would publish an account of employees punching other's timecards without it being based on fact.Mario wrote:I'm not advocating 100% what the workers did. I don't work there but I have a close friend who is a baggage handler. Of course what we are hearing is a one sided story making the employees sound like trash. Yes it was an illeagle strike. Yes it was over an issue of people punching other people out. (time-clock) This method of getting Jim to punch Bob's card when he went down instead of Bob walking all the way there himself had been going on for 30-40 years in my understanding. Not necessarily to cheat the clock. And anyways, how do we know that things weren't perticularly slow and someone says 'ok you leave 15 mins early and I'll make sure all the work is done and I'll punch you out'. (just one case scenerio-not factual) All I'm saying is, we only have one view so far and unless we work in the conditions we can't really speculate and call the workers down. I hear AC was going to fire over 120 people for this offence. People who have been loyal employees for years. Also I'm told that this issue is one of, if not the first, that both x-Canadian and long time AC employees were united on. So it ultimetly begs the question; If the workers were so united on this issue that they risked their jobs or whatever else to stand up for themselves and each other...what does that say about the company they work for?
But then again, my opinion is uneducated as I am an outsider trying to make sense of something I hope I never have to understand....the inner workings of AC
So that leads me to rebut your statements that it was perhaps mostly innocent, (for purposes of convenience), and has been going on for many years. Both of these statements may be true. But messing around with something as fundamental to a company as the method by which pay and identity are determined, is surely one of the stupidest things possible to do. (Speaking as someone who is not beyond reproach as an employee.) To further find the gall to STRIKE when called on it, makes me damn near sick.
I find it VERRrrrry difficult to believe that AC was considering firing 120 employees because Jim punched Bob's card the odd time. Given what I've seen with union shops (inside and outside of AC) and the incredible manipulation of things like shift-selling, I am VERRRrry skeptical there wasn't wholesale abuse of the timecards.
In the end, even if everything was on the up and up, are the union members so stupid as to not realize that perception is as important as reality? I don't have a copy of the baggage handlers collective agreement, but I'm willing to bet there's provision in it somewhere to prohibit any employee from punching any time card other than their own, with the maximum penalty being termination. Whether or not the intent was innocent is irrelevant, as is the length of time it's allegedly been going on. To have the GALL to wildcat after something like that...blows my mind. Defending it as an issue that unites AC and ex-CDN is more depressing than inspiring.
I'm sure there IS more to the story, but it will have to be amazing to change the public's perception now...
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Hun IN the SUN
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I myself am an employee, and its so frustrating to see this happen. this has been going on for longer than you think. It is abuse of the system and should not be happening, it causes a domino effect amongst the group. [hes going home early why cant I]. And it pisses me off how these guys can bring the whole operation to its knees, especially after all the CCAA, celine deon BS, and cuts. I agree with complexintentions, these fat lifers dont realize how sweet they have it, for such a job that requires no education and no skill and really NO BRAINS. WAKE UP CALL REQUIRED.
Just a little insider feedback:
QUOTE." However, if all your work is done and in order to satisfy the "shift requirement", you have to stand around the punch clock for 20-30 minutes, waiting for those minutes to pass by ... what exactly are you stealing?"
I don't think the issue is 20-30 mins. It's the ones with "buddy" who punches them in or out half a DAY early...my spouse see's it everyday, guys leaving after 4 hours, or showing up 4 hours late...thanks to "buddy".
No, he's not management, he's IAM.
IMHO I hope that all of them get fired and that includes the incredibly stupid corrupt IAM ..The IAM gives a bad name to unionism.
QUOTE." However, if all your work is done and in order to satisfy the "shift requirement", you have to stand around the punch clock for 20-30 minutes, waiting for those minutes to pass by ... what exactly are you stealing?"
I don't think the issue is 20-30 mins. It's the ones with "buddy" who punches them in or out half a DAY early...my spouse see's it everyday, guys leaving after 4 hours, or showing up 4 hours late...thanks to "buddy".
No, he's not management, he's IAM.
IMHO I hope that all of them get fired and that includes the incredibly stupid corrupt IAM ..The IAM gives a bad name to unionism.
I work on the ramp and baggage for Air Canada at YYZ. All of you with your brilliant comments obviously dont have a clue what went on yesterday and you will never know ever unless you put on a pair of coveralls and get your ass on the AC ramp. You think we enjoyed doing what we did, to risk our jobs so we can prove a point. I have been there for 15 years - 10 with canadian and 5 with AC. Do you also know that Mr. Milton HIMSELF said fire those bastards that went home early. Do you also know that Vancouver ramp, Montreal ramp and Winnipeg ramp as well the groomers at YYZ and the ground mechanics at YYZ dont SWIPE OUT AT ALL. Who are we on the ramp and baggage, a bunch of dead beats that work with no equipment, broken down tractors, belt loaders, container loaders. AC thinks of us as trash, the lowest of the low. I remember many times when my shift on the ramp would start at 7 am and our first flight as a crew arrives at 7:04 am, 4 minutes after starting the shift where we dont even have time to look for equipment to do the flight meanwhile 3 managers are driving around in their ford windstar enjoying a hot cup of coffee giving shit to anybody they see at $75000 a pop.
So to everybody out there that has not worked for AC in Toronto and especially the guys that work for other contractors that bitched that they had to stay, I personally am sorry that you had to stay. But when you continue to kick us in the teeth and especially after giving Celine milions to advertise and paint airplanes at $200.000 a piece and then come to me and ask to give my %15 wage back to you Mr. Milton well I think you asked enough. One more thing, how would you feel showing up at 5 am for your ramp shift and as you swipe in you are told that your shift begins now at 5 pm because they just felt like changing your start time and work location because they know they cant do whatever they want to do with you - END OF STORY. Nobody told the other guys that work for the other contractors at YYZ to work there as AC is hiring right now for the ramp. Guys dont get me wrong, I am glad to have this job as I enjoy for the most part what I do especially with the good guys that also work there but enough is enough, give us the tools and some respect to work with and yesterday as the this whole fiasco came to a close in our crew room the base manager (big wig) told us that if your work is done at the end of your shift and all your work assignments are done go home and I mean going home when there is less than an hour left on your shift.
I agree as well that there are A#@holes that leave 4 hours early and I get angry at that as well as I think that is not fair to me or the other guys.
I would like to apologize from all the guys at AC YYZ to anybody that was inconvenienced and delayed as the AC YYZ head manager told us yesterday that we as a group works hard for the company and the passengers but we all know that we were looked down upon and all you guys wants us fired because of what we done. I hope you dont fly as a pilot for a company that keeps screwing around with you and then you might understand what really happend.
So to everybody out there that has not worked for AC in Toronto and especially the guys that work for other contractors that bitched that they had to stay, I personally am sorry that you had to stay. But when you continue to kick us in the teeth and especially after giving Celine milions to advertise and paint airplanes at $200.000 a piece and then come to me and ask to give my %15 wage back to you Mr. Milton well I think you asked enough. One more thing, how would you feel showing up at 5 am for your ramp shift and as you swipe in you are told that your shift begins now at 5 pm because they just felt like changing your start time and work location because they know they cant do whatever they want to do with you - END OF STORY. Nobody told the other guys that work for the other contractors at YYZ to work there as AC is hiring right now for the ramp. Guys dont get me wrong, I am glad to have this job as I enjoy for the most part what I do especially with the good guys that also work there but enough is enough, give us the tools and some respect to work with and yesterday as the this whole fiasco came to a close in our crew room the base manager (big wig) told us that if your work is done at the end of your shift and all your work assignments are done go home and I mean going home when there is less than an hour left on your shift.
I agree as well that there are A#@holes that leave 4 hours early and I get angry at that as well as I think that is not fair to me or the other guys.
I would like to apologize from all the guys at AC YYZ to anybody that was inconvenienced and delayed as the AC YYZ head manager told us yesterday that we as a group works hard for the company and the passengers but we all know that we were looked down upon and all you guys wants us fired because of what we done. I hope you dont fly as a pilot for a company that keeps screwing around with you and then you might understand what really happend.
Helinas, you are missing the whole point. We are not discussing the job description or its perceived lack of satisfaction. What goes on with the supposed "punch cards" is a load of crap. You are basically stealing from the company by saying that you were working those hours even when you weren't. So what if Milton himself said to fire those workers... at any other job in the real world (i.e...one that isn't unionized) if you are caught stealing, you are gone. You guys have to stop hiding behind your unions, grow some balls and get some accountability for your actions. If you guys don't like your jobs then quit. I am sure there will be no problems finding some high school kids to do the same work for half the pay.
Practices like abusing time cards tend to be insidious in nature. It starts with people leaving a few minutes early with permission, or at least with the supervisor's knowlege. Over a period of months or years people gradually leave earlier and arrive later and it evolves into an accepted practice that the supervisor's and local managers accept. Eventually, someone higher up takes notice and forces the practice to stop.
How you change what has become accepted practice is critical in avoiding a labour relations incident such as a wildcat walkout. Installing spy cameras and making threats of discipline is an incredibly stupid method of dealing with any labour issue in any environment. Especially when it involves a well organized and militant union group.
The correct course of action is to first sit down with the union reps/shop stewards and explain the company's concerns and the need to change this common, but no longer acceptable, practice. Then give your local supervisors and managers clear directions on what they are expected to do regarding implementation of this new direction. Finally, inform all the workers (hopefully jointly with the union) of the new expectations.
Once everyone knows of the new expectations you deal with violaltions in the normal disciplinary manner. Verbal warning, written expectations, written reprimand, suspension, and perhaps termination on 4th or 5th occassion.
Workers don't "wildcat" without a percieved good reason. Usually it's in response to something management has done that is extremely provocational, excessive, or abusive in nature. In any wildcat situation, the first thing any union always does is negotiate a "no discipline agreement" for the strikers. That gets the workers back on the job quickly, after which the company and union can sit down and deal with the real issue at the root of the problem. In most cases, companies agree to the "no discipline" because with 20/20 hindsight they realize they triggered the event through a mistake of their own.
Perhaps there's a lesson here for the pilots who work for companies that abuse and threaten them. Stand up for yourselves!
How you change what has become accepted practice is critical in avoiding a labour relations incident such as a wildcat walkout. Installing spy cameras and making threats of discipline is an incredibly stupid method of dealing with any labour issue in any environment. Especially when it involves a well organized and militant union group.
The correct course of action is to first sit down with the union reps/shop stewards and explain the company's concerns and the need to change this common, but no longer acceptable, practice. Then give your local supervisors and managers clear directions on what they are expected to do regarding implementation of this new direction. Finally, inform all the workers (hopefully jointly with the union) of the new expectations.
Once everyone knows of the new expectations you deal with violaltions in the normal disciplinary manner. Verbal warning, written expectations, written reprimand, suspension, and perhaps termination on 4th or 5th occassion.
Workers don't "wildcat" without a percieved good reason. Usually it's in response to something management has done that is extremely provocational, excessive, or abusive in nature. In any wildcat situation, the first thing any union always does is negotiate a "no discipline agreement" for the strikers. That gets the workers back on the job quickly, after which the company and union can sit down and deal with the real issue at the root of the problem. In most cases, companies agree to the "no discipline" because with 20/20 hindsight they realize they triggered the event through a mistake of their own.
Perhaps there's a lesson here for the pilots who work for companies that abuse and threaten them. Stand up for yourselves!
