Cessna OR Diamond

[pilotguyCANADA]

If you were stuck in the middle of nowhere - which one would you trust more

[Just another canuck]

Cessna

[Snowgoose]

The other than the one that got me stuck there

[Barney]

The cessna but diamond's are more fun to fly.

[pilotguyCANADA]

The new diamonds look unreal...cessna makes reliable airplanes, BUT it looks so clean and easy plus ur flying a stick not a yoke

[Just another canuck]

My last company had a DA-40 and DA-42... didn't fly them and didn't want to. Those things never spent more than an hour in the air without being down for maintenance for a week or more.

[AUGER9]

Cessnas!

[ditar]

I flew both Diamonds and Cessnas extensively back when I was instructing and both had their pros and cons. As far as reliability is concerned, neither seemed to spend any more time in the shop than the other. They were both mostly trouble free between inspections. The engines in the DV-20 and DA-40 never gave me any reason to worry (I never got a chance to fly the -42, though), although they were a little more temperamental to start. Once flying though I've never had one so much as skip a beat on me when managed correctly. A Cessna does feel like a more solid plane, though. But I would have to say the Diamonds are more fun to fly.

[brokenwing]

Are you ever going to fly a diamond commercially? there is a slim chance, but from what i've heard the DA-42 is the ultimate hangar queen. Lack of parts and support and alot of bugs to work out with the diesel engines. Cessna on the other hand, is proven and reliable.

[Just another canuck]

from what i've heard the DA-42 is the ultimate hangar queen. Lack of parts and support and alot of bugs to work out with the diesel engines.

That is definitely true... like I said already, that piece of shit couldn't stay in the air for more than one flight. And I think the company who makes those engines went tits up, didn't they? I think someone else is supposed to step up with a replacement but all warranty all the original engines is no longer.

[MichaelP]

I find this really curious...

In Asia they love the Thielert!
I did get reports of some engine troubles in both the DA40 (Diesel) and DA42 in Malaysia, but not so much elsewhere.
In Asia they seem to accept the high cost of changing the gearboxes every 600 hours.
They are still buying new DA42s there, and if I could get the finance I'd buy one here too. Halcyon next door service the Thielerts and they have a couple of Cessna 172's flying around with them.

Getting stuck... Old technology is probably better, and if it has a Gipsy engine you'll have half a chance of fixing it.
A Lycoming or Continental can be swung but then you'd want two blades and preferably a carburettor. Not as field friendly as the Gipsy though.

The Rotax 912 is not easily swung and so you'll need to find a battery, but this engine is easier to look after and far more reliable than some of the older engines.
There are more Rotax 912s roughing and toughing it around here than anything else.

But then where are you?
If on a strip a Cessna 180/185 would be best...
If you are short of fuel and time a Diamond will be best, uses less goes faster.

Personally I would choose a tailwheel aeroplane for bush strips... I'd prefer a Super Cub or equivalent.

[Just another canuck]

I did get reports of some engine troubles in both the DA40 (Diesel) and DA42 in Malaysia, but not so much elsewhere.

The ones my boss had in Asia were nothing but trouble and I heard the same from all the Aussie pilots I talked with.

MichaelP, do you the story with the engines? The company did fold, right? What is the replacement to be and what about all the people with the old engines?

[teacher]

Here you go............

Diamond turns to avgas to fuel DA42
By Jeffrey Decker

Diamond Aircraft's search to replace the diesel powerplant supplied by insolvent Thielert has led to a new DA42, the L360, powered by twin Lycoming IO 360 fuel-injected avgas engines. Supplemental type certificate and first delivery are on track for the first quarter of 2009.

"We actually built prototypes five years ago, but we abandoned them because the demand was for the diesel-powered aeroplanes," says president Peter Maurer, speaking at the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association exhibition in San Jose, California. Owners will be able to one day convert this DA42 to run on diesel engines, he says, like the AE300 from Diamond affiliate Austro Engines. "This aircraft was designed for maximum flexibility," he says.

Maurer says plans to have the AE300 ready by year's end are likely to change to early 2009.

The DA42 L360's $599,500 price includes Honeywell KAP 140 autopilot and Garmin G1000 avionics. The new model, which made its debut at the AOPA Expo in San Jose, California, has redesigned cowlings to reduce drag and an enlarged canopy. The engine provides a 30% horsepower boost over its diesel predecessor.

Maurer says reliability is another factor in the new engine choice. "In all of the Lycoming-powered DA40s we've delivered, we've never had an in-flight shutdown."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -da42.html

[4Stroke]

MichaelP, do you the story with the engines? The company did fold, right? What is the replacement to be and what about all the people with the old engines?

Thielert went bankrupt earlier 2008, so all DA42's lost engine support. Diamond is a hair's length away from certifying their own diesel engine (arms-length company "Austro-Diesel"). they are also certifying the Lycoming-powered DA42 that was built alongside the original Thielert. For current owners, I do not know the details, but Diamond has made favorable terms for customers that will transition from the Thielert to the Austro or the Lycoming.

Going forward, all current DA42 owners, and DA42 new-owners will have engines to strap on to the airframes. Unfortunately, the company suffered (more importantly, customers suffered) due to the bankruptcy, but they have risen again, and will provide a great engine for a superior airframe.

As for Cessna vs. diamond......anything can fail, but I would much rather be hitting the ground in an airframe certified to stay intact with a 22g impact.

*helmut on for rebuttals*

4Stroke.

[teacher]

This is an older article but it still sheds a little light on the matter. Personaly I really enjoyed flying Diamond products, they were fast, nimble and had GREAT fuel burns which allowed you to go far and get more done in training flights.

ILA 2008: Diamond duels as new engine sparkles

Austrian GA airframer Diamond Aircraft announced its new Austro Engine AE300 2.0 170hp diesel engine yesterday at ILA, after its long-time supplier Thielert Aircraft Engines (TAE) filed for insolvency just last week.

Sticking to the company’s diesel preference, it is a Jet A1-powered compression ignition piston engine developed from an automotive Mercedes-Benz engine. The AE300 is based on the same core engine as the Thielert unit.

Christian Dries, chief executive of Diamond, speaking at the show yesterday morning said: “Solving our own problem is the priority, but we’re happy to work with others. There are more than 70 [Diamond] aircraft waiting for an engine.”

“Why did we start our own engine development programme? Answering his own question, Dries said: “Well, it was not our intention to invest €40m in the factory, I’d rather have saved the money. But the TBO of the Centurion 2.0 was becoming very short. It would almost be cheaper to operate with a twin turboprop…”
On a potential certification date, Dries says: “As soon as possible. As you can see it’s close. It has to be if we are flying three aircraft into the show on them.”

And to that extent the company has flown three aircraft into ILA with the new AE300 power plant – the DA40, DA42 and a DA50 Magnum.

Dries also sees the new engine as a good retrofit option for other Thielert customers. “We will see if it fits into a [Cessna] 172. But it could also be an engine for the [Cessna] 182. I think the 182 with the AE engine would be good…not as good as our aircraft but only because we’ve got a new design with better aerodynamics,” he says.

The AE300 will burn between 10 and 34 litres per hour depending on conditions and although the AE300 is actually slightly heavier than the TAE option, Dries is confident it is by far a better power plant.
“This engine will meet the 2,000h TBO. It has to.”
According to Dries the DA40 has become a “quick aircraft” while the DA42 is going to become “a real 190kt aircraft”.

Speaking at ILA yesterday (Tuesday) the recently-appointed provisional insolvency administrator of TAE – Dr Bruno Kübler – said that current public disquiet with the company was largely due to a “disinformation campaign” initiated by Diamond Aircraft.

“In the past few days, Diamond repeatedly let it be known that I was not very cooperative in negotiations and didn’t seem very interested in securing the TAE business in the long term. This is blatantly misrepresentation of the facts. In actual fact, Diamond offered to buy a large number of engines and spare parts – but a price considerably lower than the price that would be charged to the end customers. That’s how Diamond tried to negotiate special conditions. Diamond has not yet directly responded to our offer of 13 May 2008 in which 90% of the required spare parts available would be delivered to Diamond. Now that more than one week has passed, we will release the parts for the market.”

Under German insolvency laws, customers buying engines, spare parts or maintenance from TAE must now pay in advance. And an immediate 20% price hike also means that large customers like Diamond – and Cessna – are not happy and would probably prefer to wait for the inevitable sale of TAE to be completed later in the summer before making any further purchasing decisions and further clarifying all outstanding warranty issues – both pre- and post-insolvency.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... rkles.html

[Hedley]

Don't plastic aircraft suffer from temperature
limitations? They get soft in the heat, and brittle
in the cold. I don't think they would be a good
choice for Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba or
Northern Ontario or Quebec.

[C-GGGQ]

Personaly I really enjoyed flying Diamond products, they were fast, nimble and had GREAT fuel burns which allowed you to go far and get more done in training flights

How does less fuel burn allow you to do more in a training flight? I know that more fuel equals greater range, but most training flights have little to do with range and are in the 1-1.5 hour mark. As both Diamond and Cessna can stay aloft for well over an hour and a half, I don't see how the fuel burn is relavent (other than in saving to the school but not training wise to the student). As for cross countries Time is what is counted not distance (minus the one 300nm trip) so a slower plane would be better technically speaking taking longer to go the same distance. Go 300nm but fly a 50mph ultralight log 12-15 hours round trip

[C-GGGQ]

Don't plastic aircraft suffer from temperature
limitations? They get soft in the heat, and brittle
in the cold. I don't think they would be a good
choice for Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba or
Northern Ontario or Quebec.

Not sure about the cold but there is a heat sensor (see big sticker behind the seat that changes colour) in the diamond if it changes colour (to black I believe) it's too hot to fly. That being said the internal temp has to rise to 55C and in the POH it says to keep an eye on it if the OAT is over 35C and at that temp you'd desintigrate inside that little greenhouse of a diamond anyways i'll teach groundschool instead

[teacher]

It was a combination of speed and fuel burn. It's all good to say time is what's important but with the diamond products I was able to send students on 200NM cross countries instead of 100NM or do 30NM low level diversions instead 15NM. You're right, burn wasn't as big a deal as speed (and time to climb). Now, I'm comparing the DA20 to a 150/152. As for a 172, well it is a little faster but the diamond still out paced it by about 20 knots or so. It also helps when it takes 10 minutes to get to the training area instead of 20.

As for temp, yes it is limiting (55'C) but anything over 40'C is inhumane whether your flying a cessna or a diamond.

[C-GGGQ]

It also helps when it takes 10 minutes to get to the training area instead of 20.

My training area was at max 2 minutes away so it was a non issue.