Alt. busting
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Alt. busting
Hi
I got this on http://www.aeforum.net
It is some pretty good info. Thought I would re-post it here.
Set your your altitude alerters (if you got one) and keep an eye on the guy next to you.
TC is out to help us 'again'
from: HeadingAltitudeSpeed
I just wanted to pass along a heads up to the flying community.
From my experience, in the past ATC handled busted altitudes and other deviations (mistakes) in house. Generally if there was no separation or serious safety issue the pilot was asked to phone the unit to 'clear up the misunderstanding' or in most cases the issue died with the controller. This is no longer the case.
We have been spanked by the regulator (TC) and no longer have any discretion in how we deal with these errors. Here is the Reader's Digest version of why.
In the north country a pilot busted his clearance, but separation and safety were not compromised. The problem was brought to the pilots attention on frequency (GABC reported level at 9000 and controller said you were cleared 7000 I check level 9, maintain 9000). The pilot knew he was in error said sorry and the controller didn't think there was any reason to pursue it further. Unfortunately for everyone there was a TC inspector in the air at the same time and monitoring the frequency. He took note of the details and at a later date decided to check on the paperwork. When he couldn't find any he contacted Navcanada and questioned why. Sh1t rolled downhill and landed on the lap of the controllers in general.
The end result is that we have now been directed to report any and all 'mistakes' to our supervisors/managers. The management then without consideration of the circumstances forwards the report to TC.
I provide this information so that if/when TC starts laying fines out that it is understood that the reason is not those **** controllers. On a whole we are not happy with this system. A quick phone call did more to fix a problem than a letter from TC ever will.
I got this on http://www.aeforum.net
It is some pretty good info. Thought I would re-post it here.
Set your your altitude alerters (if you got one) and keep an eye on the guy next to you.
TC is out to help us 'again'
from: HeadingAltitudeSpeed
I just wanted to pass along a heads up to the flying community.
From my experience, in the past ATC handled busted altitudes and other deviations (mistakes) in house. Generally if there was no separation or serious safety issue the pilot was asked to phone the unit to 'clear up the misunderstanding' or in most cases the issue died with the controller. This is no longer the case.
We have been spanked by the regulator (TC) and no longer have any discretion in how we deal with these errors. Here is the Reader's Digest version of why.
In the north country a pilot busted his clearance, but separation and safety were not compromised. The problem was brought to the pilots attention on frequency (GABC reported level at 9000 and controller said you were cleared 7000 I check level 9, maintain 9000). The pilot knew he was in error said sorry and the controller didn't think there was any reason to pursue it further. Unfortunately for everyone there was a TC inspector in the air at the same time and monitoring the frequency. He took note of the details and at a later date decided to check on the paperwork. When he couldn't find any he contacted Navcanada and questioned why. Sh1t rolled downhill and landed on the lap of the controllers in general.
The end result is that we have now been directed to report any and all 'mistakes' to our supervisors/managers. The management then without consideration of the circumstances forwards the report to TC.
I provide this information so that if/when TC starts laying fines out that it is understood that the reason is not those **** controllers. On a whole we are not happy with this system. A quick phone call did more to fix a problem than a letter from TC ever will.
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Sadly I've seen that very thing happen. To protect the innocent, or whatever, the individual in question had a radio problem at an FSS airport. Being unable to establish contact said pilot joined the circuit in such a manner as to maintain seperation from the aircraft already in the pattern and landed without incident.
After a phone call was made explaining what happened everybody was happy; until enforcement got involved. Fortunately the guy at enforcement was reasonable and after establishing that the pilot had done what could reasonably be done to avoid conflict with the other aircraft and still land safely, recommended no action be taken. The FSS guys were quite apologetic, they hadn't wanted to report the incident; they didn't have a choice in the matter.
After a phone call was made explaining what happened everybody was happy; until enforcement got involved. Fortunately the guy at enforcement was reasonable and after establishing that the pilot had done what could reasonably be done to avoid conflict with the other aircraft and still land safely, recommended no action be taken. The FSS guys were quite apologetic, they hadn't wanted to report the incident; they didn't have a choice in the matter.
- Cat Driver
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TC is determined to ailenate as many people on both sides of the fence as they can through the manditory AOR system that is in force. The FSS people have no choice but to file these AOR's.
We on the other hand have choices when contacted by enforcement asking questions regarding an AOR.
Soon if you fart while crossing the ramp on a calm morning there will be an AOR filed.
This then gives the TC Gastapo their ammo to phone you and start the fishing game to see if they can entrap you in wrongful farting on duty.
Having made the mistake of willingly giving answers to the Gestapo regarding an AOR and thus starting a three week fishing expedition I will in future reply to any and all phone calls from the Gastapo with a very clear and polite f.ck off and hang up.
Beware, be silent and avoid these people they are " N O T " there to help your career.
Cat Driver:
We on the other hand have choices when contacted by enforcement asking questions regarding an AOR.
Soon if you fart while crossing the ramp on a calm morning there will be an AOR filed.
This then gives the TC Gastapo their ammo to phone you and start the fishing game to see if they can entrap you in wrongful farting on duty.
Having made the mistake of willingly giving answers to the Gestapo regarding an AOR and thus starting a three week fishing expedition I will in future reply to any and all phone calls from the Gastapo with a very clear and polite f.ck off and hang up.
Beware, be silent and avoid these people they are " N O T " there to help your career.
Cat Driver:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
- Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Mornin OW :
Depends on whether or not I find something constructive to do with my time soon.
Just waiting to find out about a 12 to 18 month overseas contract, if it goes ahead you will get reliefe from all the drivel I post.
If I go away on contract will you miss me?
Cat Drivel:
Depends on whether or not I find something constructive to do with my time soon.
Just waiting to find out about a 12 to 18 month overseas contract, if it goes ahead you will get reliefe from all the drivel I post.
If I go away on contract will you miss me?
Cat Drivel:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
- Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Well no word yet on my coming season....
But I'm hoping that my last post on the Hey Waldo thread will give us some action.
If that does not get the sheep who blindly believe in their masters to start baaaw,ing , nothing will.
Cat.
But I'm hoping that my last post on the Hey Waldo thread will give us some action.
If that does not get the sheep who blindly believe in their masters to start baaaw,ing , nothing will.
Cat.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Just the other day an FSS person told me with resignation "... and i tried to warn him but he didn't hear me and my supervisor was standing over my shoulder ... so i had to violate him"
I guess we are all going to have to start paying attention to what we are doing.
Damn.
ahramin
I guess we are all going to have to start paying attention to what we are doing.
Damn.
ahramin