Several snowplow runway incursions lately

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Donald
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Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Donald » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:03 am

Seems that there have been 3 close calls in the last couple weeks. Be careful out there!
Detail InformationUser Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/02/11
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: CNK411 (Sunwest Aviation) departed runway while TK81 (sweeper) was still on the runway.

User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/02/12
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE A09W0026: The Sunwest Beech 1900D, C-GSWZ, was departing Runway 25 at Fort McMurray with a visibility of about 5/8 of a mile. Just before reaching V1 the crew noticed headlights on the runway in front of them. They rotated immediately and passed about 100 to 150 feet over a snowplow. The snowplow had been waiting on taxiway "C" when called by the FSS operator to enter the runway and continue snow clearing operations. The snowplow operator was communicating on the ground frequency of 121.9. The Beech 1900D was communicating on the MF frequency of 118.1.

User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/02/13
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE TSB reported that this incident will be the subject of a Class 3 investigation. A Minister's Observer from System Safety will be appointed.
Detail InformationUser Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/05
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: Aerodrome Safety
Narrative: TK 81, a Yellowknife airport truck, was operating on Runway 15/33 and the driver was requested to hold short of Runway 09/27. The driver read back the hold short instruction. C-GASB, an Arctic Sunwest DHC-8, departed from Runway 27 and as the aircraft passed over the intersection, TK 81 failed to comply with the hold short instruction and crossed the runway.

User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/06
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE TSB reported that TK 81, an airport runway sweeper, was engaged in snow clearing operations on Runway 15/33 at Yellowknife, and was proceeding north on Runway 33. The Yellowknife Flight Service Specialist requested TK 81 hold short of Runway 09/27, as an Arctic Sunwest Charters DeHavilland DHC-8-100, registration C-GASB, was departing Runway 27, and TK81 read back the hold short instruction. TK 81 did not comply with the hold short instruction and entered the runway intersection, at a constant speed, as the DHC-8 was accelerating through approximately 80 knots on the ground roll. The aircraft continued the take-off, as it appeared that rotation prior to the intersection was safer than rejecting the take-off, and flew over the sweeper at between 50 and 100 feet AGL. The incident occurred at the beginning of twilight (about 45 minutes before sunrise), and approximately 15 minutes before the Tower was scheduled to open. TK 81 was monitoring the ground frequency (121.9) and the aircraft was on the MF (118.5). Surface visibility was three to four miles in light snow. The sweeper driver was closely monitoring the performance of the sweeper at the time of the occurrence, as the sweeper had been shutting down intermittently. An investigation into a similar occurrence (A09W0026) is currently underway and additional data pertaining to this incident may be gathered to support that investigation. Aerodrome Safety reported that the manager of airside operations at the Yellowknife airport reported that the Airfield Maintenance Specialist (AMS) truck driver/equipment operator was trouble shooting a mechanical problem with the sweeper while cleaning runway 15/33. The vehicle operator was so focused on the malfunction that he entered runway 27/09 in spite of the fact that he had read back the hold short instruction. The driver, who freely admitted his error, will undergo vehicle re-training and a rewrite of the airports AVOP. The crew of Arctic Sunwest had no choice but to continue on with their departure.
Detail InformationUser Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/09
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: JZA 447, a CRJ 700 operated by Jazz, landed on Runway 31L at Whitehorse without clearance while Truck 84 was on the runway and sweeping was in progress. It was reported that visibility was about 1/2 mile in blowing snow at the time of the occurrence and the aircraft descended out of cloud at about 400 feet AGL. The truck was on the threshold of Runway 31L as the aircraft passed over the top of the vehicle. The company safety department and TSB Edmonton are looking into the occurrence.
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by PC12flyer » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:44 am

This one happened to me in December.

Narrative: NAV CANADA staff at Thunder Bay Airport (CYQT) control tower reported that during a runway scan with JZA8533 approximately one-half of a mile (½ mile) final for runway 25, the Tower Controller observed a Field Maintenance vehicle on runway 30, north of runway 25 but inside the hold line. The vehicle operator (who had previously been instructed and readback to hold short of runway 25) was instructed to back up immediately. The JZA8533 flight crew was advised of the situation and elected to conduct an overshoot. Ops. impact -- none.

Narrative: UPDATE Supplemental information received from Thunder Bay Airport Authority [2008/12/22]: An airport employee (AOS) was sweeping snow from runway 12 with Truck 91. He had been instructed by ATC to hold short of runway 07 but he accidentally went past the hold line for runway 07. ATC instructed the operator of Truck 91 to stop immediately and get off of the runway. Truck 91 stopped before physically going onto runway 07 and reversed (north) back down runway 12. The flight crew of ACA8533 aborted the landing and later landed without incident. The driver of Truck 91 went back to the garage as instructed by ATC.
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Donald
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Donald » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:37 am

Maybe these incidents are what they will use to justify the new "low-vis" procedures at all airports?

Either way, it seems like it's been happening a little too frequently.
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by iflyforpie » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:20 am

They are still very paranoid in Cranbrook over 30 years later. They have the plows off the runway when I am still 10 miles back in my 206.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19780211-0
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Lurch
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Lurch » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:59 pm

I almost got hit by a snowplow while taxing in YXD a few months ago, no CADOR was filed.

I landed 34 turned left on to Delta and was cleared across 30-12 to the shell. I was coming up to the intersection when I saw 2 plows coming toward me at a good speed, so I stopped. The first plow spotted me and slammed on the brakes and just managed to stop prior to Delta, the second plow swerved and missed hitting the first plow by 12"s and didn't stop until through the intersection. Had I not stopped the second plow would have taken me out for sure.

I would hate to get hit by that big blade they have out in front. :cry:

Lurch
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Pratt X 3 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:25 pm

Notice anything in common with these incidents (besides snowplows and airplanes)?
The incident occurred at the beginning of twilight (about 45 minutes before sunrise), and approximately 15 minutes before the Tower was scheduled to open. TK 81 was monitoring the ground frequency (121.9) and the aircraft was on the MF (118.5).
The snowplow operator was communicating on the ground frequency of 121.9. The Beech 1900D was communicating on the MF frequency of 118.1.
Why wouldn't the same frequency be used by all vehicles (snowplows and airplanes)? Wouldn't that be the prudent thing here? Trying to save money (a two-way radio with more than one frequency) at the expense of safety?
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Fatass » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:01 am

CADORS update to the CYXY incident.


User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/11
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE TSB reported that the Air Canada Jazz Bombardier CRJ705, registration C-FDJZ, operating as JZA 447, had been cleared for the ILS approach to Runway 31L at Whitehorse. The ILS approach was hand flown using the head up guidance system. On initial contact, Whitehorse Tower requested the flight report 10 miles back on final, and advised that sweeping was in progress on the runway. The crew acknowledged the request. The aircraft landed approximately eight minutes later, about 2400 feet down the runway, after flying over two sweepers operating on the displaced threshold. The crew had not reported to Whitehorse Tower on 10 mile final and no landing clearance had been issued. The airport operates in a non-radar environment. The reported METAR 10 minutes after landing described the ceiling as VV600, visibility of 3/4 SM in light snow and drifting snow with an RVR of 4500. There have been two other recent incidents in the Western region involving conflicts between runway sweepers and aircraft (A09W0026 on 09 February and A09W0034 on 04 March). TSB is currently assessing their level of investigation concerning this incident.



They passed over two sweepers in poor vis and continued the landing without a clearance. :shock:
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by SierraPoppa » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:38 am

Lurch wrote:I almost got hit by a snowplow while taxing in YXD a few months ago, no CADOR was filed.

Not trying to be the shit disturber here but why didn't you file one?
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Lurch » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:44 pm

SierraPoppa wrote:
Lurch wrote:I almost got hit by a snowplow while taxing in YXD a few months ago, no CADOR was filed.

Not trying to be the shit disturber here but why didn't you file one?
Probably should have, but if I filed one everytime something goes wrong I would spend half of my day filling out reports.

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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Jastapilot » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:12 pm

Lurch wrote:
SierraPoppa wrote:
Lurch wrote:I almost got hit by a snowplow while taxing in YXD a few months ago, no CADOR was filed.
:roll: Sorry man, but if it was as big a deal as you say you should have written it up.



Not trying to be the shit disturber here but why didn't you file one?
Probably should have, but if I filed one everytime something goes wrong I would spend half of my day filling out reports.

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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Canoehead » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:02 am

Pratt X 3 wrote:Notice anything in common with these incidents (besides snowplows and airplanes)?
The incident occurred at the beginning of twilight (about 45 minutes before sunrise), and approximately 15 minutes before the Tower was scheduled to open. TK 81 was monitoring the ground frequency (121.9) and the aircraft was on the MF (118.5).
The snowplow operator was communicating on the ground frequency of 121.9. The Beech 1900D was communicating on the MF frequency of 118.1.
Why wouldn't the same frequency be used by all vehicles (snowplows and airplanes)? Wouldn't that be the prudent thing here? Trying to save money (a two-way radio with more than one frequency) at the expense of safety?

I have to agree with your idea here, but specifically at uncontrolled airports with an MF (ie: YSB). Why does the FSS have to communicate with the sweepers/plows on a separate frequency? At a controlled airport (ie: YAM) when there is only one controller on duty running 2 frequencies, I prefer when they tie in the 2 frequencies so I can hear both. If there are 2 controllers on duty, then fine, run them separate.

I'm a big picture kind of guy, and I think it might save my bacon some day.

What does MANOPS say about this specifically?


As for missing the call in the RJ at Whitehorse, there should have been a 'flag' at some point. I use lights as my 'trigger', but if either one of us isn't 100%, then we ask. A sharp controller would have been asking 'where are those guys at?', especially if the active was littered in plows and RVR was low like that.
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Tim
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Tim » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:51 am

why didnt jazz overshoot when the saw plows on the runway!

i wonder what sops say about that :roll:
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by yfly » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:17 am

The Jazz incident kind of reminds me of this little bit of history.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19780211-0
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by yfly » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:19 am

Tim wrote:why didnt jazz overshoot when the saw plows on the runway!

i wonder what sops say about that :roll:
Good question. I guess they were just one mistake short of a hat trick so took advantage of the opportunity.
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ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by fox main » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:37 am

:prayer:

RE, THE AVIATION HEARLD
ON MARCH 06, 09 AN AIR CANADA JAZZ FLIGHT INTO YXY LANDS WITHOUT TOWER PERMISSION AS SWEEPING TRUCKS WERE WORKING ON RUNWAY IN HEAVY OVERCAST WITH VIS AT 800 METERS. AC LANDED 730 METERS ON RUNWAY AFTER PASSING OVER THE TWO SWEEPING TRUCKS! INCIDENT UNDER INVESTIGATION BY TRANSPORTATION AND SAFETY BOARD.
OPERATORS WANT TO KNOW IF AIR CANADA WILL GO GOOD FOR UNDERWEAR LAUNDY COSTS!!
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Re: ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by Invertago » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:50 am

Standby for some great Seneca grad jokes ;)
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Re: ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by Apollo » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:03 am

Standby for some Flying club jokes.
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Re: ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by Widow » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:14 am

CADORS Number: 2009C0564 Reporting Region: Prairie & Northern

Occurrence Information
Occurrence Type: Incident Occurrence Date: 2009/03/06
Occurrence Time: 2150 Z Day Or Night: day-time
Fatalities: 0 Injuries: 0

Canadian Aerodrome ID: CYXY Aerodrome Name: Whitehorse Intl
Occurrence Location: Whitehorse Intl (CYXY) Province: Yukon
Country: CANADA World Area: North America

Reported By: NAV CANADA AOR Number: 104912-V1
TSB Class Of Investigation: 3 TSB Occurrence No.: A09W0037
Event Information
Alleged Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) infraction
Conflict - potential
Incursion - aircraft
Weather - visibility
Aircraft Information
Flight #: JZA 447
Aircraft Category: Aeroplane Country of Registration: CANADA
Make: BOMBARDIER Model: CL600 2D15 (705)
Year Built: 2005 Amateur Built: No
Engine Make: GENERAL ELECTRIC Engine Model: CF34-8C5
Engine Type: Turbo fan Gear Type: Land
Phase of Flight: Landing Damage: No Damage
Owner: JAZZ AIR LP - AIR CANADA JAZZ Operator: JAZZ AIR LP, AS REPRESENTED BY ITS GENERAL PARTNER, JAZZ AIR HOLDING GP INC. (5002)
Operator Type: Commercial

Detail Information
User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/09
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: JZA 447, a CRJ 700 operated by Jazz, landed on Runway 31L at Whitehorse without clearance while Truck 84 was on the runway and sweeping was in progress. It was reported that visibility was about 1/2 mile in blowing snow at the time of the occurrence and the aircraft descended out of cloud at about 400 feet AGL. The truck was on the threshold of Runway 31L as the aircraft passed over the top of the vehicle. The company safety department and TSB Edmonton are looking into the occurrence.

User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/11
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE TSB reported that the Air Canada Jazz Bombardier CRJ705, registration C-FDJZ, operating as JZA 447, had been cleared for the ILS approach to Runway 31L at Whitehorse. The ILS approach was hand flown using the head up guidance system. On initial contact, Whitehorse Tower requested the flight report 10 miles back on final, and advised that sweeping was in progress on the runway. The crew acknowledged the request. The aircraft landed approximately eight minutes later, about 2400 feet down the runway, after flying over two sweepers operating on the displaced threshold. The crew had not reported to Whitehorse Tower on 10 mile final and no landing clearance had been issued. The airport operates in a non-radar environment. The reported METAR 10 minutes after landing described the ceiling as VV600, visibility of 3/4 SM in light snow and drifting snow with an RVR of 4500. There have been two other recent incidents in the Western region involving conflicts between runway sweepers and aircraft (A09W0026 on 09 February and A09W0034 on 04 March). TSB is currently assessing their level of investigation concerning this incident.

User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/16
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE TSB Edmonton will conduct a Class 3 investigation concerning this event; a Minister's Observer from System Safety will be appointed.
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Re: ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by Invertago » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:26 am

Apollo wrote:Standby for some Flying club jokes.

Naah, you never see flying club jokes on avcanada and here is the reason. Seneca grads are unaware of the flying clubs can also train a good pilot, while the flying club grads are inherently jealous that the Seneca grads get cheap government subsidized training and the shot at a life long Jazz copilot gig. There's more then one way to learn to fly... but shhh, don't tell some people on here we'd miss out on some funny arguing on the internets!
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Re: ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by mattedfred » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:03 am

did the operating crew graduate from seneca or something?
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Re: ALL JAZZED UP!

Post by HighBypass » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:22 am

mattedfred wrote:did the operating crew graduate from seneca or something?
did the operating crew graduate from seneca or something?
nah Invertago is just a bitter flight instructor who flies in the same little bubble everyday and never gets to fly north of 60 and see beautiful Whitehorse. He's probably never been north of hwy 7.

(how's that for stereotyping eh?)
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by yzfer » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:05 pm

Pratt X 3 wrote:Notice anything in common with these incidents (besides snowplows and airplanes)?
The incident occurred at the beginning of twilight (about 45 minutes before sunrise), and approximately 15 minutes before the Tower was scheduled to open. TK 81 was monitoring the ground frequency (121.9) and the aircraft was on the MF (118.5).
The snowplow operator was communicating on the ground frequency of 121.9. The Beech 1900D was communicating on the MF frequency of 118.1.
Why wouldn't the same frequency be used by all vehicles (snowplows and airplanes)? Wouldn't that be the prudent thing here? Trying to save money (a two-way radio with more than one frequency) at the expense of safety?
In YZF they can pair ground (121.9) and tower (118.1), and you hear it quite frequently there (well, you used to, its been a few months since ive been there). Even though the tower was closed and the airport was operating as an MF, the MF is still 118.1, so I'm not sure why they don't pair the frequencies then. Although, it doesn't explicitly state anywhere if the frequencies were paired or not, so I suppose this is all just pure speculation.
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Fatass » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:01 pm

JZA 447 2009C0564

It's been two years, surely the class 3 investigation must be complete. Does anyone know where to view such a report? Or, do we need to look under the rug?
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Tim » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:00 am

next time just post a link...
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Re: Several snowplow runway incursions lately

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:16 pm

lucky

Some good lessons to be learned, thanks for posting the info
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