What would you do? Single Engine Missed Approach

[LegoMan]

Interested to see what people would do in this situation.

You are on a VOR approach, lose your engine and continue to minimums. At minimums you see no runway and initiate missed approach. What would you do next. Try the approach again or continue to your alternate 100NMs away. (you are in a very remote area)

[mag check]

What are "we" flying?

[Snowgoose]

Depends on the airplane and fuel situation.

704 or 705 airplanes have no problem doing a single engine missed. Fuel may make you bust minimums and land. You can bust minimums and land if you have a good reason to. Being on fire or having no gas are very good reasons to me, especially if your alternate is 100nm away.

If I was in an aztec or an apache, you have no choice but to land.

This is all geography dependent and how far into the approach as well.

[nookie201]

That decision may be indeed equipment related too!,

Lets say a commander 700 with a 200/ft SE climb rate and a critical engine or a G-V with a superb SE climb rate.

For me & P-Navajo I'd choose the alternate and avoid the possible 2nd SE go-around based on workload/risk on my A/C.
On my A/C I'd avoid a SE IFR goaround at all cost, pending no Fire or other issues that would force a bust.

Tuff decision if it would come up 4 sure

-G

[Matthew]

You are on a VOR approach, lose your engine and continue to minimums. At minimums you see no runway and initiate missed approach. What would you do next. Try the approach again or continue to your alternate 100NMs away. (you are in a very remote area)

Follow SOP's of course. And while you're at it, squak 7700 and let ATC know you're screwed.

[Pratt X 3]

Declare the emergency!!! There is nothing wrong with declaring if you need assistance and/or priority. Don't be shamed into not declaring an emergency by management or other pilots. If you have a problem and it affects the handling of the aircraft or the ability to conduct normal procedures, declare the emergency. It may or may not create some additional paperwork and/or some phone calls, but when you are dealing with the problem, it is not the time to be thinking about that. Worrying about getting violated or having to deal with Transport/your company/the media/etc. in the middle of an emergency won't help the situation. The time to think about that is before you get into the plane. When faced with a decision, think "What would happen if I had to declare an emergency and an investigation happened? Are the things that I have direct control of safe and legal? Is there something I could change right now that I would not want to be discovered after something happened?" Departing overweight, without sufficient fuel or adequate rest etc. are things that you, as the pilot, have direct control of and would complicate a 'simple' emergency such as a rough running engine should someone decide to look a bit further into it or worse, you bend some metal and find yourself in the middle of an investigation. [cliche]Keep your nose clean and make sure you don't give them any rope to hang yourself with.[/cliche]

I once had to declare an emergency. IMC in the middle of busy airspace and we had an electrical fire. One pilot flew and talked on the radio; the other pilot fought the fire. ATC cleared us to descend to VMC conditions and direct to the airport to land on any runway. We were on the ground quickly with the fire extinguished. It actually took longer to clear customs than it did to deal with the emergency. Even though we were surrounded by fire trucks, police and airport operation vehicles, the extent of the paperwork was getting the basics (names, company, nature of the problem) recorded by the airport people. Nothing ever came out of it. Declaring an emergency is a resource to assist in the safe completion of a flight. It shouldn't be a hinderance as long as you don't have something to hide. And you shouldn't have anything to hide as long as you look before you depart and identify any hazards that you can change to ensure a safe flight.

[x-wind]

Just because it'll fly on one, has a graph in the book saying it'll climb on one; doesn't necessarily mean it'll climb and fly on one for all the remaining fuel without blowing up (but maybe it does, read/train with focus). Will it overheat or have to be flown extensively above maximum continuous? Somedays/places it might, some maybe not. Decision time.
-A/C and location specific. It's good to ponder the hard questions. And there is a better decision to be made in every scenario.

Declare the emergency or transmit it blind for sure.

What would you do or consider LegoMan?

[SAR_YQQ]

doesn't necessarily mean it'll climb and fly on one for all the remaining fuel without blowing up (but maybe it does, read/train with focus). Will it overheat or have to be flown extensively above maximum continuous?

Maybe this is my complete lack of flying piston engines speaking - but when flying S/E, the operating engine doesn't know the other one isn't working. It doesn't work any harder per se. Granted in some conditions the operating engine is working harder to maintain airspeed - but it is still working within cruise parameters.

Again - I am completely ignorant when it comes to non-turbine aircraft - I can only imagine the operating issues that come about with the reduced torque and performance while S/E.

[Brewhouse]

If aircraft performance and fuel were not a factor I would fly to a base where the aircraft could be fixed. If the airstrip you are missing at is so remote, there probally isn't a maintenance facility there, or a hotel for that matter.

['effin hippie]

Yah sure its A/C, fuel and geography specific.

VOR mins can be as low 300 - 350 feet. If you don't have any part of the runway at those mins I don't think you're going to gain much by pushing it over another 100 feet. At night you'd get the lights, even in 1/4 SM, so I'm thinking of daylight with low vis in a low contrast environment, CYUX in a bad blow comes to mind.

Turbine I'm going to the alternate unless maybe there's a fire I can't put out. The missed is going to be the bastard, so if I am confident on that in a piston, I think I'm going to the alternate then too.

But of course this has been decided already right? Because if I know its at or below mins down there and I'm in a piston close to gross in the summer, there is no way I'm descending any further after that stove goes out. And as a general rule there is no effing way I'm initiating or continuing a SE approach unless I KNOW I'm getting in.

Good post. Gets ya thinking.

ef

[W0X0F]

Sounds like a situation where there will be a lack of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time. The time to decide what to do was in the premiss of your query. Your on approach and lose an engine. Unless you are absolutely, positively, 110% guaranteed that any further descent will result in a successful landing, you descend no further. That altitude between say the FAF and MDA is what your going to wish you had on the missed. It's also where they stick the cumulogranite. The second you become single engine, descend only for a sure thing landing.

[AuxBatOn]

The second you become single engine, descend only for a sure thing landing.

Oh boy, I'd never, ever land when weather is at minimums

[Doc]

I think you would have a pretty good idea there was a high possibility of a missed approach. Assuming your fuel is good for your alternate, even if you're flying a lower performance twin, you can at least maintain altitude and climb to your minimum enroute altitude, or you shouldn't be there in the first place. I would give very strong consideration to proceeding to my alternate without even doing the approach. It's all about the cards you've been dealt. Why put yourself in a position to fly a very difficult missed approach if there's an option.

As for declaring an emergency. Whatever fills your boots. I'd let them know I'm "on one" and proceed to my alternate. Squawking 7700, and having everybody run around like headless chickens, will not change your situation one wee bit.

It would however, be time to give thanks you have a second engine!

[iflyforpie]

doesn't necessarily mean it'll climb and fly on one for all the remaining fuel without blowing up (but maybe it does, read/train with focus). Will it overheat or have to be flown extensively above maximum continuous?

Maybe this is my complete lack of flying piston engines speaking - but when flying S/E, the operating engine doesn't know the other one isn't working. It doesn't work any harder per se. Granted in some conditions the operating engine is working harder to maintain airspeed - but it is still working within cruise parameters.

Again - I am completely ignorant when it comes to non-turbine aircraft - I can only imagine the operating issues that come about with the reduced torque and performance while S/E.

A couple of things that affect piston engines that don't affect turbines as much:

Cooling. Turbines are cooled by air going through the engine for the most part. More power=more airflow=more cooling. Not true for a piston engine where the cooling air is outside the engine and forward speed has a great effect on the amount of cooling it gets.

Power. While most turbine engines are 'derated' and have gobs of power to handle an engine out scenario, many piston engines have a five minute max power setting and a max continuous power setting (usually in terms of RPM). Typical operation of the engine in cruise is no more than 75% of the max continuous power setting, but operating at the max continuous power setting should be alright for one flight. Depending on the speed and load of the aircraft, a takeoff power might be the only setting that keeps the aircraft airborne.


Similar scenarios are also applicable to some older turbine engines with a 'power reserve' where upon engine failure you would overthrust the good engines (rather than going to rated power). After the flight the engines would have to be overhauled.

[Doc]

Sounds like a situation where there will be a lack of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time. The time to decide what to do was in the premiss of your query. Your on approach and lose an engine. Unless you are absolutely, positively, 110% guaranteed that any further descent will result in a successful landing, you descend no further. That altitude between say the FAF and MDA is what your going to wish you had on the missed. It's also where they stick the cumulogranite. The second you become single engine, descend only for a sure thing landing.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You're a non pilot. But your reply has captured the whole point of the exercise. You're bang on.

[iflyforpie]

Sounds like a situation where there will be a lack of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time. The time to decide what to do was in the premiss of your query. Your on approach and lose an engine. Unless you are absolutely, positively, 110% guaranteed that any further descent will result in a successful landing, you descend no further. That altitude between say the FAF and MDA is what your going to wish you had on the missed. It's also where they stick the cumulogranite. The second you become single engine, descend only for a sure thing landing.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You're a non pilot. But your reply has captured the whole point of the exercise. You're bang on.

+1