I'm a new poster here and am fairly new in the world of aviation, doing my night rating right now and will continue with the multi-ifr and cpl. I know how hard it is to get a job in Canada, especially in Quebec, where I'm living (i'm close to CYHU). Of course the flight school tells me how fast I'll get a job and how wonderfull working in aviation is, but I know it's full of shit.
What about leaving Canada? Are there more jobs opportunities for low time pilots on another continent? Is it worth it? I'm ready to go anywhere at anytime, BUT would never pay a PPC (and to me working the ramp is almost as bad for the pilot profession).
Thanks for helping me. Any information is usefull (I understood soon enough that you have to talk to people working in the industry to know the truth, because flying schools seem ready to tell you anything, even lies, to get your money!)
Getting a job outside Canada
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Sounds like a contradicting statement to me.BUT would never pay a PPC (and to me working the ramp is almost as bad for the pilot profession).
Anyway, if you go to another continent such as Europe, you need the working rights through a (EU) work permit or citizenship. And there, the only way to get employed by the carriers is to pay 50k for your A320 type rating.
I suggest that you stay in Canada and get a job that you like. I say like because I don't want you to turn to instruction if you won't enjoy it.
Then when you get more hours, leave and go elsewhere where they regard pilot's with better pay and conditions. Or you can continue and work the system here and wait a very very long time before a good life style.
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Hey Piiilot
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Re: Getting a job outside Canada
There's nothing wrong with working the ramp or going up north. You learn a lot, it builds character and people respect you more than the snot nosed squids whose daddy got them a job....
Most people say I know fuk nothing, but I really know fuk all....
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Leave as soon as you can and enjoy the adventure.
You can interpret that however you would like.
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Don't believe everything you read on this site. Some of the best things in life are hard, and if something comes too easily there's often less satisfaction tied to it.trampbike wrote:I know how hard it is to get a job in Canada
There's a big world out there with lots of opportunity. Hopefully you'll find some grass almost as green as at home. Keep in mind that there's a lot of hell holes outside Canada as well!trampbike wrote:What about leaving Canada?
Working a ramp is a job. Someone has to do it, and it gives an employer an opportunity to assess you before entrusting you with the lives of others. Lots of people posting here have worked ramps/docks etc.trampbike wrote:working the ramp is almost as bad
Whatever you choose, I wish you well.
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
DHL was hiring Canadian pilots for their base in Bahrain. They had Metroliners and a couple of CV580'2 when I was there. The Middle East is a good place where they'll hire Canadians. Easy place to live as well. Lots of Canadians down there.
Europe may be a challenge. I believe you'll need a license to fly in Europe. Flight International posts all kinds of jobs for pilots. Depending how badly they need pilots, they may bring you in on an expat package, giving you the necessary work permits.
Great opportunity worth pursuing.
Europe may be a challenge. I believe you'll need a license to fly in Europe. Flight International posts all kinds of jobs for pilots. Depending how badly they need pilots, they may bring you in on an expat package, giving you the necessary work permits.
Great opportunity worth pursuing.
bmc
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
It's not that I don't respect people working the ramp. I'll probably do it soon... It's just hard to understand. After all the money I will spend on training, when I get my CPL, I'll have to work the ramp at a salary way lower than what I now make fixing bikes. It's a weird system, but I guess companies do it because... they can! And we're all ready to do it to get a job...Sidebar wrote:Working a ramp is a job. Someone has to do it, and it gives an employer an opportunity to assess you before entrusting you with the lives of others. Lots of people posting here have worked ramps/docks etc.trampbike wrote:working the ramp is almost as bad
Think ahead or fall behind!
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
To go overseas in many places you require a working permit which is near impossible unless you
1.) marry someone in that country
2.) have family members there, in which case a working permit is still a decade away
3.) have a company sponsor you, which unless you have thousands of hours on jet transport, that wont happen either.
4.) you already have citizenship there which half the problem is taken care of.
Then step 2 in many countries is a license conversion which could cost a couple hundred to a thousand in places like the U.S., African countries like Kenya to tens of thousands in places like Europe (JAA)
Even after the first two steps are completed, you now need a type rating in places like Europe, where that can very well cost you $50,000+ having to do a MCC course and type rating course.
And even after all the steps are completed, you still have no guarantee to find work....
1.) marry someone in that country
2.) have family members there, in which case a working permit is still a decade away
3.) have a company sponsor you, which unless you have thousands of hours on jet transport, that wont happen either.
4.) you already have citizenship there which half the problem is taken care of.
Then step 2 in many countries is a license conversion which could cost a couple hundred to a thousand in places like the U.S., African countries like Kenya to tens of thousands in places like Europe (JAA)
Even after the first two steps are completed, you now need a type rating in places like Europe, where that can very well cost you $50,000+ having to do a MCC course and type rating course.
And even after all the steps are completed, you still have no guarantee to find work....
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Where do you suggest? All my family is from Québec, and I only have Canadian citizenship.pika wrote:Leave as soon as you can and enjoy the adventure.
I never hear anything about Central and South America. How is it there?
Think ahead or fall behind!
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
If you speak fluent Spanish, you may have a chance in some countries.
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Ha. Where?LegoMan wrote:If you speak fluent Spanish, you may have a chance in some countries.
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Most of the places down south that I've been to
strongly prefer pilots of their own nationality - they
don't take kindly to norte americanos dropping in
and scooping up all the cherry jobs.
Just watch the parochial reaction here, every time
a Canadian company hires a foreign pilot
strongly prefer pilots of their own nationality - they
don't take kindly to norte americanos dropping in
and scooping up all the cherry jobs.
Just watch the parochial reaction here, every time
a Canadian company hires a foreign pilot
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Having worked in many different countries over the last few years, I am not sure 100% of the advice you are getting is accurate.
The US and Europe are, n fact somewhat harder to get a job in
In the third world areas there are still jobs for ex-pat pilots as they find the actual flying in those countries similar to our northern areas. Surprisingly, many of these countries have much stricter regulations regarding minimum hiring qualifications than Canada, and many a very extensive training program ..regulated and actually adhered to.
There are some jobs I have seen for a newly minted CPL but they are few and far between.
The good news is you will never have to work the dock or pay for a PPC. Unheard of in most of these places,
Living in a third world country however, takes some adjustment. It is a job, and at the end of the day , you have to go home and have a life. Most young pilots are coming down for the adventure and they quickly find that the adventure is a bit of an ordeal. It will take a while to adjust. You may be flying to a five star resort , but you are the help, not the guest.
Also pay in the Caribbean and other places is not up to Canadian standards (except maybe the starting pay at Jazz), but the cost of living is usually a lot lower depending on how you want to live.
In South America and Mexico, the pay seems quite a bit better, particularily if you have a specialized skill like crop dusting, but again, in mnay cases, a relative thing to their economy.
PM me, if you wuold like more details of any area you have specific interest in. I know very little about the northern Africa places, having just been through them, but the pilots I met with seemed to fit into this pattern also.
There are exceptions. Some corporate drivers make very good money, and engineers also. And great perks, but for the most part I dont think you chances of landing one of those jobs is very good at this stage in your career.
The US and Europe are, n fact somewhat harder to get a job in
In the third world areas there are still jobs for ex-pat pilots as they find the actual flying in those countries similar to our northern areas. Surprisingly, many of these countries have much stricter regulations regarding minimum hiring qualifications than Canada, and many a very extensive training program ..regulated and actually adhered to.
There are some jobs I have seen for a newly minted CPL but they are few and far between.
The good news is you will never have to work the dock or pay for a PPC. Unheard of in most of these places,
Living in a third world country however, takes some adjustment. It is a job, and at the end of the day , you have to go home and have a life. Most young pilots are coming down for the adventure and they quickly find that the adventure is a bit of an ordeal. It will take a while to adjust. You may be flying to a five star resort , but you are the help, not the guest.
Also pay in the Caribbean and other places is not up to Canadian standards (except maybe the starting pay at Jazz), but the cost of living is usually a lot lower depending on how you want to live.
In South America and Mexico, the pay seems quite a bit better, particularily if you have a specialized skill like crop dusting, but again, in mnay cases, a relative thing to their economy.
PM me, if you wuold like more details of any area you have specific interest in. I know very little about the northern Africa places, having just been through them, but the pilots I met with seemed to fit into this pattern also.
There are exceptions. Some corporate drivers make very good money, and engineers also. And great perks, but for the most part I dont think you chances of landing one of those jobs is very good at this stage in your career.
99% of pilots give the rest a bad name
What we learn from history is that we fail to learn from history
What we learn from history is that we fail to learn from history
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Panama Jack
- Rank 11
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Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Good luck trying to find luck outside of Canada, especially if you don't have a Type Rating with time on type.
Besides the more limited "small airplane" opportunities outside of North America, you also have to contend with Spaniards, French, Brits and other Europeans, other Canuks, some Americans, Aussies and et al vrying for the same jobs. Of course, I haven't mentioned the locals who normally will have first preference. Many (dare I say "most") parts of the world are effectively off-limits unless you have nationality in the country or (and maybe) if you have Permanent Residency.
It sounds beautiful, and if it was easier a lot more people would be doing it.
Besides the more limited "small airplane" opportunities outside of North America, you also have to contend with Spaniards, French, Brits and other Europeans, other Canuks, some Americans, Aussies and et al vrying for the same jobs. Of course, I haven't mentioned the locals who normally will have first preference. Many (dare I say "most") parts of the world are effectively off-limits unless you have nationality in the country or (and maybe) if you have Permanent Residency.
It sounds beautiful, and if it was easier a lot more people would be doing it.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
And that my friend is the reason why this industry is such a shite hole.trampbike wrote:It's not that I don't respect people working the ramp. I'll probably do it soon... It's just hard to understand. After all the money I will spend on training, when I get my CPL, I'll have to work the ramp at a salary way lower than what I now make fixing bikes. It's a weird system, but I guess companies do it because... they can! And we're all ready to do it to get a job...Sidebar wrote:Working a ramp is a job. Someone has to do it, and it gives an employer an opportunity to assess you before entrusting you with the lives of others. Lots of people posting here have worked ramps/docks etc.trampbike wrote:working the ramp is almost as bad
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CelBatrin
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- Location: what some might call another dimension
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
^
What a way to end this thread. I can't let that happen.
I've noticed that some people want to discourage up-and-comers.
I guess that's one less competitor in the job market.
If anything that's why this industry is such a shite hole.
I can't really comment on the topic though as I'm in the same boat as you Trampbike.
I would suggest you find another FTU though.
If they're telling you its easy getting a job today (I can understand 2 years ago),
then that raises question about the quality of their training.
What a way to end this thread. I can't let that happen.
I've noticed that some people want to discourage up-and-comers.
I guess that's one less competitor in the job market.
If anything that's why this industry is such a shite hole.
I can't really comment on the topic though as I'm in the same boat as you Trampbike.
I would suggest you find another FTU though.
If they're telling you its easy getting a job today (I can understand 2 years ago),
then that raises question about the quality of their training.
I'll just sneak through here... they'll never see me if I stay low.
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Well Put! +1pika wrote:Leave as soon as you can and enjoy the adventure.
Not exactly accurate in regards for Africa or IndonesiaLegoMan wrote:To go overseas in many places you require a working permit which is near impossible unless you
1.) marry someone in that country
2.) have family members there, in which case a working permit is still a decade away
3.) have a company sponsor you, which unless you have thousands of hours on jet transport, that wont happen either.
4.) you already have citizenship there which half the problem is taken care of.
Don't let others take you down mate or be discouraging. Many good Canadians, American, South Africans, Spanish, Italian, Australian, Kiwis...etc. All working here cause the wanted a differnet little adventure. Half the guys I fly with in Tanzania all started here as their first job, some maybe their second next to Zambia or Bots. If you get on with a decent outfit, they take care of the documents visa, airport pass and some pay for all those expenses for you. Just need a little patients and have a proactive personality to help you get by.
Sure things take a little longer in Africa. Just one tip.....bring your log book and make sure its stamped from your school CFI!
Good Luck,
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Ok, I can't believe how negative some of these posts are.
Trampbike, the truth is right now it may be difficult to get a job. I am not saying there are no jobs. All I am saying is that you will not be hired outside of Canada by sending out resumes or phoning possible employers. I have friends in the Caribbean who got jobs just because they showed up. I have friends in South America, Asia, Middle East and Africa, who got jobs because they showed up. They did their research and phoned a few places to find out residency requirements and license conversion requirements. They bought plane tickets and then got work.
The best thing you can do at the moment is network. Do not treat anyone poorly as they may be the next lead you get on a job somewhere on this planet. Do the best you can at your training. Instructors talk. If you are lazy at your training or don't show up for flights, no instructor will put their name on the line for you when they move further into the aviation world. If they move overseas and they liked you, there is a good chance they will take you with them. Most important, keep your chin up. People have paid thousands for airline tickets to get to an area they would like to work, and when nothing offers itself after a week or two, they get discouraged and go home. Two days later, a company is looking for a guy right now and they missed their chance.
If you really want to work overseas, just focus on a place you think you would like to work and find out what their requirements are to get a job there. There are a few countries that you have no chance in. I'm not going to lie. There are dozens of others that will take you and you won't pay a dime for your conversion or residency permits. Africa hires low time pilots. The pay is low to start but you will have the time of your life. Get experience here and doors will open everywhere for you.
Do not be like the cat who wanted a fish but was afraid to get his paws wet
If you want it, it is there for you. Once you get that job, you'll realize it was only you that was holding you back.
FWIW, I am in Africa now. I should have come years sooner.
Trampbike, the truth is right now it may be difficult to get a job. I am not saying there are no jobs. All I am saying is that you will not be hired outside of Canada by sending out resumes or phoning possible employers. I have friends in the Caribbean who got jobs just because they showed up. I have friends in South America, Asia, Middle East and Africa, who got jobs because they showed up. They did their research and phoned a few places to find out residency requirements and license conversion requirements. They bought plane tickets and then got work.
The best thing you can do at the moment is network. Do not treat anyone poorly as they may be the next lead you get on a job somewhere on this planet. Do the best you can at your training. Instructors talk. If you are lazy at your training or don't show up for flights, no instructor will put their name on the line for you when they move further into the aviation world. If they move overseas and they liked you, there is a good chance they will take you with them. Most important, keep your chin up. People have paid thousands for airline tickets to get to an area they would like to work, and when nothing offers itself after a week or two, they get discouraged and go home. Two days later, a company is looking for a guy right now and they missed their chance.
If you really want to work overseas, just focus on a place you think you would like to work and find out what their requirements are to get a job there. There are a few countries that you have no chance in. I'm not going to lie. There are dozens of others that will take you and you won't pay a dime for your conversion or residency permits. Africa hires low time pilots. The pay is low to start but you will have the time of your life. Get experience here and doors will open everywhere for you.
Do not be like the cat who wanted a fish but was afraid to get his paws wet
If you want it, it is there for you. Once you get that job, you'll realize it was only you that was holding you back.
FWIW, I am in Africa now. I should have come years sooner.
Re: Getting a job outside Canada
Thanks to everyone for the input! I'm now looking foward finishing my training then leave this continent... 
Think ahead or fall behind!
