Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

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ScudRunner
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Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by ScudRunner »

Came Across these recent pics of the Aurora's :oops:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Canada-- ... 1488446/M/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Canada-- ... 1488445/M/

My god at least re upholster the orange 70's seats that's just disgusting.
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x-wind
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by x-wind »

I for one happen to like 70s upholstery. As for the question at hand- No idea if it's necessary. But again, I think 70s orange is awesome when in good condition. Dare I say we are not that much more technologically advanced? It's arguable that we are trendier.
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Rowdy
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Rowdy »

They sure look clean even if they are dated...
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by just curious »

Salt air. Gotta wash after use.
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MUSKEG
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by MUSKEG »

Such a typical response from our society. Our younger generation is swamped with credit card debt because they NEED that new couch and they NEED that new phone and they NEED that swanky house. Why do we need to upgrade the Aurora's, is it because the equipment is broken and doesn't work or is it because there's a sleek new component on the market that is esthetically (spelling?) pleasing. If it still works then work it, if it's broken by all means replace it. It's my tax dollars you are spending.
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Sidebar
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Sidebar »

It took the government about 15 years just to buy these planes. I'm sure there's also been an upgrade program in the works for about 15 years.

Just look at those 70's vintage CRTs. Time for some nice new LCD flat panels?
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ourkid2000
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by ourkid2000 »

Actually,

IMP in YHZ is upgrading the Auroras regularly for some time now. It's called the AIMP program.......Aurora Incremental Modernization Project (do a google search for AIMP, you'll see) and we hauled a lot of that old gear out of them and replaced with more modern avionics equipment.

I would estimate that 50% of the equipment on board is replaced, plus now they are getting into another phase which dumps those old CRTs in favor of more fancy gear.

They were quite different looking, except for the furnishings, after we got done with them
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dashx
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by dashx »

Good lord is that a lector decoder in one of those pics??????
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Spokes
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Spokes »

ourkid2000 wrote:Actually,

IMP in YHZ is upgrading the Auroras regularly for some time now. It's called the AIMP program.......Aurora Incremental Modernization Project (do a google search for AIMP, you'll see) and we hauled a lot of that old gear out of them and replaced with more modern avionics equipment.

I would estimate that 50% of the equipment on board is replaced, plus now they are getting into another phase which dumps those old CRTs in favor of more fancy gear.

They were quite different looking, except for the furnishings, after we got done with them
I retired as crew on these things in 05. I can remember being threatened with updates to the Aurora since the 80's. AIMP is the latest in a series of upgrade projects that were planned. This one is happening, but it is doing so painfully slow. In the last year or two they finaly got a new FLIR, but this was done outside the AIMP. Radar, IFF MAD, Electronic warfare, are all AFAIK still as they came in the 80's. These I think are planned for phase 3 of the upgrade. Phase 2 last I looked was done on a few planes. Last I heard was phase 4 would not happen. Acoustic sensors got a bit of an upgrade to a 99 channel rx'er, but it is not integrated into the system very well.

I still well remember the cycle- new flir, no new flir then new flir (finaly). SAR radar, then no SAR Radar. GPS? the first one they put in was not integrated, and as far as I know was designed for tanks. You can see that green thing hangin on the nav table n the second pic.

They will get there, but I think it will still take years. Someone more current on this aircraft may be have newer info on all this, and correct me. Please do so. Tell me its not that bad.
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by SAR_YQQ »

AIMP 2 has released glass EFIS and FMS-style electronics up front. Bringing the plane into at least the early 90's.
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Spokes
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Spokes »

SAR_YQQ wrote:AIMP 2 has released glass EFIS and FMS-style electronics up front. Bringing the plane into at least the early 90's.
No - it brings the flight deck to the early 90's. This 'plane' is about alot more than the flight deck. A long range patrol aircraft is about sensors. In this aircraft you are still talking 70's technology. I realize all the other stuff must happen, FMS, computers, networks etc, but so far it is still very much a 70's 'plane'.
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Dash-Ate »

Can we blame the liberal bogeyman, or should we blame harper the guy actually running the country?
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SAR_YQQ
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by SAR_YQQ »

Spokes wrote:No - it brings the flight deck to the early 90's.
Concur.

The EO/IR pod has also recently been upgraded (in last 2-3 years). Allowing the AESOP's perform their duty easier and more effectively. I have seen images/video from its use - the IR feature is very definitive.
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Spokes
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Spokes »

SAR_YQQ wrote:
Spokes wrote:No - it brings the flight deck to the early 90's.
Concur.

The EO/IR pod has also recently been upgraded (in last 2-3 years). Allowing the AESOP's perform their duty easier and more effectively. I have seen images/video from its use - the IR feature is very definitive.
True enough. The new Wescam FLIR is a very nice, modern piece of equipment. It is however (AFAIK) not integrated into the mission system. No hooking a target and having the unit auto slew to the target, it must be done manually. No entering flir contacts into the computer as well.

FLIR is only one of the sensors that AESOp's use on this aircraft.

The Radar is still a 70's unit. It is good for snorkle detetction, but new modern radar's can do this and so much more. The IFF interrogator is a joke. The Electronic warfare system just cannot cope with the modern EM environment. The MAD system is good, but here to is room for improvement. A self-comping system should be used. The Acoustic system while it has been upgraded to a 99 channel system, has no reference system, as a result bouy position must be had by ontopping, and calculating drift. These are all things that are to be addressed in phase 3 (I believe), but have been promised since the 80's. Don't get me started on the mission computer.
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by WJflyer »

Essentially what happens when we operate a orphan fleet again... the Aurora's are essentially P-3 Orion's but fitted with the sensor suite of the S-3 Viking... while everyone else has benefited from the various USN updates to their P-3's, we have to develop our upgrades ourselves. At the time, it kinda made sense; the S-3's sensor suite was considered better than the P-3's, but of course, the S-3's were stripped of their ASW role in the 1990's, and were retired not that long ago. The P-3 will continue to solder on into the near future, and the P-8 will of course replace it.
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2R
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by 2R »

Why not just wait until uncle nigels emporium of used worn out crap decides to sell orff those Nimrods .And buy some more outdated antiques . :mrgreen:
Although the Nimrods offensive capability may go against the pacifist nature of the boy scouts/girl guides in charge of the once proud Canadian military, continuing the demise into irrelevance.
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by Four1oh »

Dash-Ate wrote:Can we blame the liberal bogeyman, or should we blame harper the guy actually running the country?
I submit that if the Conservative had been awarded a majority government, things would be actually getting done by now.
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by WJflyer »

Dash-Ate wrote:Can we blame the liberal bogeyman, or should we blame harper the guy actually running the country?
I blame both; the Liberals for dragging their feet with the AIMP, and the Conservatives for failing to line up a replacement. AIMP (well, the upgrades at least) needed to happen a decade ago, along with ASLEP. We need to right now get a replacement program started for the Aurora's as even though we are putting them through ASLEP, they won't last forever.
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Re: Time to at Least Upgrade the Aurora's?

Post by wabano »

Should we get these guys out of retirement?
ImageImage

They actually built the wing boxes at Canadair...
(bucking rivets from inside...)
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