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Cat Driver
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:57 am 
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Firing the pilot is a poor decision, IMO. I seems shortsighted of a company to turn its back and lose an experienced pilot due to a mistake. If there was a pattern of mistakes, that's a different story.


Yes that is true.


Amphibious operations are beyond doubt have the most risk for landing with the wrong gear selection....especially for high time float plane drivers.

I was fortunate to have started my sea plane career in an amphibian so it was easier for me to think amphibs.

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CLguy
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:17 pm 
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I'm hearing that there is a bit more to this story than just a pilot being fired for having the gear in the wrong position. It may have more to do with a certain circuit breaker that was intentionally pulled to quiet things in the cockpit!!

Either way it is still a shitty deal to see such an experienced driver out of work!

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SeptRepair
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Ahhh, see how a little more information surfaces and the story becomes clearer. I am a believer in the SMS theory. So in my thought process I would be interested in WHY the circuit breaker was out. As an engineer I know the Lake&Air gear advisory warning sytem can be adjusted based on airspeed. Just a small screw in the back of the data box. Did this pilot complain to the engieer the warning was coming on too early? Did the engineer sluff off the request? Did the CB pop and the system was u/s therefor, his back up he always relied on was missing? ( I honestly cant rememeber if a pulled circuit breaker as well disables the gear lights) Surely, I am not the only guy who looks at accidents like this.

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Forestdump
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:22 pm 
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I'm a little confused. How does the 802's gear warning system work? Does it have a Land/Sea selector similar to the 215/415? If the aircraft is properly configured do you still receive some kind of aural warning? Just wondering why the system would need to be intentionally disabled?


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North Shore
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:43 pm 
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It's been about 8 years since I flew an amphib, but IIRC, the warning always squawks the gear configuration at you (eg:"Gear is up for water landing") as the speed drops below a certain threshold.

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Forestdump
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:58 pm 
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Thanks North Shore. I was going to say how annoying that must be every scoop but I suppose it isn't much different from having the other guy say "pre scoop complete" or some variation in a two crew airplane.


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sonny covin
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:25 pm 
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How much water does the AT-802F carry?


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THS
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:34 pm 
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sonny covin wrote:
How much water does the AT-802F carry?


It can carry up to 820 USG


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Rowdy
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:16 pm 
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How much water can the fireboss legally carry on a normal operational day.


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North Shore
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:48 am 
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Looking here: http://www.firebossllc.com/specs.cfm it looks as if you'll get ~650USG initially, rising to 800USG with a ~ 2.5 hour bombing time...

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Cat Driver
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:03 am 
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650USG initially, rising to 800USG with a ~ 2.5 hour bombing time.


650 US is 541 Imperial or 5,410 pounds of water.

800 US is 666 Imperial or 6660 pounds of water.

541 gallons can be quite effective if you get to the fire before it really gets going.

I often split my drops with the PBY when working a new fire start which meant I was dropping 450 Imperial gallons each drop. It is all about getting to the fire as quickly as possible then using the water or retardant to its maximum potential.......

....and to do that takes experience and knowledge of fire behavior and of course the ability to put the drop exactly where you want it to go and at the correct speed and height for the job at hand..

I learned a lot about fire suppression by going back to the fire after I put it down and observing the ground crews mopping up.

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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.

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threepoint
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:33 am 
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Eleveniron wrote:
Does anyone know who the pilot is?
Yes.

Quote:
Are initials DS?
No.


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Driving Rain
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:08 pm 
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snowshoe
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:23 pm 
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picked up some info 3rd or 4th hand couple days ago that another Fireboss landed wheels up on land. heard was due to some mechanical snafu. can anyone confirm?


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Driving Rain
 Post subject: Re: Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:05 am 
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picked up some info 3rd or 4th hand couple days ago that another Fireboss landed wheels up on land. heard was due to some mechanical snafu. can anyone confirm?




viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56764&p=538434#p538434


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