Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

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robbreid
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Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by robbreid »

(Bloomberg) -- The Toronto Port Authority is requesting cash from the federal government to build a C$38 million ($35.2 million) tunnel to the city’s island airport, the Toronto Star reported.

The port authority is issuing a formal request for proposals today for an environmental assessment of the project, the newspaper said today. The pedestrian tunnel would replace 90-second ferry rides from the mainland to the airport, used primarily by Porter Airlines.

The request appears to meet rules for federal infrastructure projects, which must be completed by March 2011, the Star said, citing Port Authority Chairman Mark McQueen.
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tired of the ground
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by tired of the ground »

I'll just make it easy for them. I'll submit a proposal for building the tunnel that is just a $20 million cancellation penalty. It'll save them over $18 million and years of bureaucracy.
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C-FABH
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by C-FABH »

The funny thing is, no matter how much of a "third party" conducts the Environmental Assessment, the BANANAs will never be appeased.
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costermonger
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by costermonger »

Wasn't the tunnel idea already tried at YTZ? In the 70's or 80's? I remember reading about somewhere, I think.
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C-FABH
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by C-FABH »

costermonger wrote:Wasn't the tunnel idea already tried at YTZ? In the 70's or 80's? I remember reading about somewhere, I think.
Try 1935, back when people had more sense.
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carmen12
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by carmen12 »

Can't say I'd like to see mainstream. But more well known people, and more well known Canadians :rolleyes: :idea:
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openendwrench
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by openendwrench »

Spending money on another enviromental assessment??????

WTF - this was studied to death back in the Lastman era and was well on they way to become reality until David Miller killed it.
So tax payers ended up paying for the EA and likely a pile more for contract cancellations only to do it all over again.

What's wrong with a bridge? Is it to easy and cheap?
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dcabrown
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by dcabrown »

There is not sufficient space for a bridge as it would obstruct boat traffic around the island and there are some pretty tall boats that by.... That waterway is actually quite important as it serves as the western access point for Toronto harbour.
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dcabrown
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by dcabrown »

So it looks like there was no interest from the private sector to do this P3 style. Hmm....I wonder why... Could it be that no one wants to finance a long term asset relying on payments from such a volatile and competitive industry subject to energy and economic shocks every so often??? Geee.... what a shocker.

Enter the taxpayer.

Oh - and what happens when that $38M spend turns into $100M (just like about every mismanaged public project) - how big is that federal deficit again? Hmm... can the taxpayer get saddled with that too please? Why aren't those private investors stepping up again??

And will the FEDERAL government subsidize an airport authority in direct competition with one of their own, the GTAA???
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teacher
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by teacher »

dcabrown wrote:There is not sufficient space for a bridge as it would obstruct boat traffic around the island and there are some pretty tall boats that by.... That waterway is actually quite important as it serves as the western access point for Toronto harbour.
Wasn't it supposed to be a draw bridge with the ferry operators running it?
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dcabrown
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by dcabrown »

Possibly. I'm not aware of what the original or proposed designs were. But a drawbridge would be kind of a silly solution in my opinion. The whole point of the bridge is to get rid of the wait times associated with the Ferry which, it would, but especially in the summer you can have wait times due to boat traffic. A draw bridge would be susceptible to interuptions from boats as well...

These are such long lead time projects however that I cant see anything ever happening. Firstly, some fixed link will eventually connect Pearson to downtown and so much of the uncertainty in getting to Pearson will be eventually taken off the table (goal is to have something by the pan-am games)

Secondly, as soon as you start digging for any type of infrastructure project, the EA's and permitting and studies and land consultations and resident consultations, blah blah blah...take years. In the meantime, that fixed link should allow you to get to YYZ in a consistent 30mins from union station. Going from Union to the island airport takes 30mins anyways, going through downtown traffic and boarding the ferry (or a few mins less if there were to be a fixed link).

So net - YTZ will lose its main competitive advantage (quick access) as there actually IS political consensus on a YTZ fixed link - its only a matter of Diesel trains, then electric? (most likely despite environmental complains) OR electric link right away (more costly, timely, less likely).
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C-FABH
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by C-FABH »

There was a drawbridge rendering, I haven't seen it since 2005-ish though. A smart idea to get rich would have been to get a job in the airport environmental assessment industry versus flying!
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Les Habitants
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by Les Habitants »

Great! Maybe now we'll get one less NIMBY always whining about the ferry foghorn that "wakes him up" at 10:30 am every morning.... :roll:
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teacher
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by teacher »

a 2 year old picture but kinda neat to see what the plan is:

Image

I can't for the life of me find that artists rendering of the draw bridge.
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photofly
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by photofly »

I think they should go the whole hog and put in a submarine dock, too. Then Deluce can board his own private two-man mini-sub there.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by iflyforpie »

I could never understand what was so hard about putting a bridge there.

Sea Island (YVR) has five bridges (six if you count the Sky Train bridge) over two arms of a busy industrial waterway...
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photofly
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by photofly »

It's a navigable channel and yachts with masts tend to get uppity about bridges; plus the agreement under which the Port Authority (think ships, harbours, cranes) gets to run the airport (think planes and runways) specifies that no fixed link will be built between the Island and the mainland. Apparently a bridge counts as a fixed link but a tunnel doesn't.


(For the sake of clarity I should add that it's not the yacht that gets uppity - it's the person driving it.)
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dcabrown
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by dcabrown »

There is definetly not enough space in the area for a bridge, unless it were a drawbridge. The boats would not be able to get by

Is it just me or does it seem weird that you have to go so far down (40M) then across the same 120M as before, then up 40M again...

Similar to the ferry, there will have to be a queue for the elevator, thus negating much (if any) time savings. Seems like the travel time would be the same after all is said and done.
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CD
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by CD »

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SierraPoppa
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Re: Toronto Port Authority Proposes Tunnel to CYTZ

Post by SierraPoppa »

robbreid wrote:(Bloomberg) -- The Toronto Port Authority is requesting cash from the federal government to build a C$38 million ($35.2 million) tunnel to the city’s island airport, the Toronto Star reported.
That's pretty cheap considering Calgary city council has just committed a minimum $295 million to put a tunnel under the new runway 16/34 that's about to built at YYC. No federal or provincial dollars forthcoming.
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