Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

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The Old Fogducker
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by The Old Fogducker » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:34 am

I went back and took a sober second look at the post in question and agree it was somewhat difficult to read. In my younger days, during my mercifully short career as a newspaper reporter, my editor would have sent the copy back for rewrite.

So, here is the new and improved version which clarifies some of my points.

OFD


Gee Dust Devil ... that post was spoken like a true capitalist exploiter of "the poor workin' man." I'll bet you are on the national conference call every Monday morning where company owners, CEOs and CFOs exchange ideas on "How to keep the little man down."

In the emerging socialist society that is "The New Canada" being invented in the Starbuck's Coffee houses of downtown Toronto, fat cats making obscene profits on the bent, sweating backs of cheap labour at the expense of the environment is just not politically correct, nor will it be tolerated by the workers of tomorrow.

I think Joe owes "The People of Canada" a great debt because he has been "allowed" to earn a very handsome margin between revenues and expenses over the last few decades. He should be repaying that moral obligation by giving a hand up to younger aviation types that are just getting by .... struggling to keep body and soul co-located. They are trying their level best to get along eating Kraft Dinner and no-name wieners made of items squeegeed from the killing and cutting room floor, while Buffalo Joe eats the most tender cuts of steak.

Some of the pilots are so underpaid, they have become inventive in ways to find sufficient caloric values to make it through the day of being worked nearly to their deaths. They may easily be confused with concentration camp survivors from the Pol Pot regime.

The most inventive(or desperate) of rampies, FAs, and FOs have turned to "Freeganism." Many of you may not know of the term "Freeganism" and are curious. While not to be considered as the compendium of all knowledge on the topic, here is a short video on how pilots may not only survive, but thrive on the bounty that awaits in a location near you.

Watch as this young recent graduate of an FTU is interviewed ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOEF75VwAtY

The pilot wannabes live in over-crowded "pilot houses," condemned hovels, abandoned buildings, or the less fortunate "lurkers" even take shelter from the elements under bridges in cardboard boxes lined with newspapers during the summer months.

Meanwhile, Joe lives in his huge house on the hill, a monument to over consumption, burning enough energy that a Geiger counter could indicate radiation levels equal to that of the detonation of an atomic weapon. Nobody on the face of the earth really needs to live like that. He should be giving back some of that ill-gotten booty.

All the mountains of money Joe has made over the years was done purely by limiting the wealth and opportunity of others. After all, there are only so many "breaks" available in Canada, and Buffalo Joe has taken far more than "his share." Doubtless, he goes to his Saddam Hussein-like marble palace, heads to the underground bunker, opens his vault, and rolls around in money like Scrooge McDuck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzba7V8uB04

Just think how many single mothers on welfare that man's wealth could help break the cycle of poverty ..... had he not grabbed too many marbles in the school yard of life.....all due to his unsatisfied insatiable greed, mixed with an unhealthy level of carnal lust for power & control.

Here is a short cartoon version of Joe being asked for an unearned and undeserved day off by one of the staff who tries to weasel his way around Joe for the time away from work... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34w8xqFz3eU

It is the obvious social inequity of the situation which makes many a youngster become a supporter of the NDP.

Seeing the beautiful Mother Earth's resources ripped from her bosom, ground up, thrown into a blast furnace, and made into trinkets for sale in the name of consumerism is a crime against all of humanity.

The environmental criminal, Buffalo Joe makes his "dirty money" by flying carbon emitters for those like-minded resource exploiters all over the north. It is the white, old boys network at work ... Those like-minded greedy CEOs who have set up shell companies ..... which are just cover stories for receiving "Corporate Welfare Grants" from a corrupt Conservative government, only interested in creating jobs and wealth. How unseemly.

Those young guys & gals who have been lured to the north by the nebulous promise of a flying job are merely lambs being led to an abattoir which has been disguised as an aircraft hangar. Joe owes it to them to upgrade them from the ramp as quickly as possible, and pay them the equivalent of an Air Canada senior 777 Captain ..... after all, its a classic example of the concept of "equal pay for equal work" isn't it? The young kid has a pilot's licence, so does the triple 7 guy ... so what's the difference?

He should have been assigned a seniority number the day his licence was issued, that way he would be able to plan his life, right out to age 65 and beyond.

On the topic of seniority, if everyone were issued a seniority number upon licence issue .... and it would "only be fair" to do so .... pilots could choose their working conditions. If they wanted to fly the bush in the typical 180, 185, Beaver, Otter, Twin Otter career progression, more power to 'em ... they could go to work pretty much right away. It would be the responsibility of the slave owner ... errr, I mean company owner, to pay for the moving expenses of the highest seniority pilot that bids for the job.

Further, all trips would be assigned based upon seniority number ... lots of flying, lots of pay ... not a nice destination, most senior turns it down, next guy goes. That idea would be carried over into all aspects of running the operation ... who makes coffee, where people park their cars boats and trailers, what TV channels are watched in the crew waiting room, who gets the best looking girl at the bar after hours, who initiates conversations and speaks only when spoken to, etc.

To be entirely fair to the scum sucking dogs.... err ... management, the pilot would have to stay with the new company for a minimum of 6 months before bidding another job anywhere in the country. Nice fall, howzabout maybe going to Halifax to see the leaves change, nice summer? Maybe its time to go to Whitehorse ... getting cold? How about a plum appointment in the tropics?

If they didn't want to fly the bush, and were waiting for an airline position, then the pilot wouldn't need to do any flying at all until the opening came up with Air Canada because someone had a heart attack, then as the expression goes ... "Bob's your uncle" ... in you go, essentially straight out of flying school with a bare CPL and the employer would be responsible for upgrading. After all, who the hell would want to upgrade themselves for crying out loud?

Those nice overseas postings that look so good to all of us freezing our dangling parts during the winter ... like Twin Otters in the Maldives for example, would be paid for by the employer too.

Oh, and no "jumping the seniority que" either. None of this "promotion is based upon merit or personal suitability" crud either. After all, those are just words used to cover up the behaviour of a butt-kissing, brown-nosing jerk that seems to get ahead in some organizations that don't understand the concept of "date of hire." There should be an investigation team that travels the country looking for those special jerks that don't subscribe to the "that's not my job" way of thinking. If they want to be creative, let them do it somewhere else in society. The exploiting slave-owner ... err, company owner, gets nothing in the way of suggestions on how to improve his operation without specifically paying for it. A pilot is paid only for being "ready to go if the phone rings" not for giving those bastard manager types access to their valuable thought processes for free.

The oft shouted mantra of the NDP comes to mind as being highly appropriate .... "Make the rich pay!"

After all, the only reason some slob would take on a supervisory role is because of some deep-seated emotional problem ... likely traceable to not being chosen as a hallway monitor or crossing guard in grade 5.....now they are looking to boss somebody around as a form of overcompensation.

The day is nigh when the youth of today's aviation industry will throw off the oxen yoke of the bourgeois capitalist, and take their rightful place ....... by force if required. Wasn't it some highly admired revolutionary like Che Guevera who said "Justice comes from the end of a gun?"

So Buffalo Joe has set up a company, taken financial and physical risks that caused many consecutive sleepless nights during the early days, then spent decades working in the arctic while other companies have tried to undercut him on a daily basis ... every time he turns around there is some other government agency threatening him with noncompliance with some new flavour of the day regulation previously unheard of, big deal..... so what.

Anybody can do it .... right?

The Old Fogducker
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by NorthFlyer » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:42 am

I find it somewhat amusing that some are comparing a cpl/ifr ticket to a law degree or medical degree I think we are giving ourselves a little to much credit. Love the show. :prayer:
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Prairie Chicken » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:09 am

The Opps manager made it perfectly clear(in the previous episode) that just because you spent $50,000 in flight school doesn't mean you are a pilot. They must first work you hard while paying you very little doing something completely unrelated to flying,
There’s a word for that: Exploitation.

OFD, oh Poet Laureate, I do enjoy your efforts, but Meatservo has me worried if—and here I make the assumption that he/she is a fine upstanding & reasonably intelligent member of our society—took you seriously for a bit. If your diatribe sounded realistic, we’re in much bigger trouble than even I believed! By the way, I particularly liked the part about how Joe “grabbed too many marbles in the school yard of life”!
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Snagmaster E » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:52 am

Prairie Chicken wrote:
... By the way, I particularly liked the part about how Joe “grabbed too many marbles in the school yard of life”!
Here here! Good quote to use for sure!
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by flyinthebug » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:29 pm

Since there seems to be so much confusion over OFDs post.. allow me to clarify..

Joe has worked damn hard in a very harsh environment and deserves the few monetary gains he has EARNED by working so hard and diligently. He HAS given many a break to CPL`s both male and female and he follows the regs to the very best of his ability.

Equality is relative. If you want the guy pumping your gas to be paid the same as the guy that owns the service station.. then vote NDP.

If I have to explain any further, it wouldnt matter.

And just as a side note.. If you havent been north of 60 you really have no idea what it takes to keep an airline running in those conditions. All the fancy "tools" available to those south of 60..freeze up in 10 mins at -40 and wont work anyways (hydralics etc etc). You adapt to your surroundings and I believe Buffalo Joe has done a GREAT job at it.

Keep the episodes coming!


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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by lost in the north » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:51 pm

Fly you seem to agree with the old dog no matter what he says,he is no longer t.c,you can know diagree...he won't hurt you.LOL
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by flyinthebug » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:59 pm

lost in the north wrote:Fly you seem to agree with the old dog no matter what he says,he is no longer t.c,you can know diagree...he won't hurt you.LOL
agreeing with someone is not = to submission.

I know OFD and my respect for him is due to the fact hes earned it.

If you say something intelligent, witty, even rational..Ill agree with you too.

If you follow my posts so closely, perhaps you`ve noted I often agree with those that have been there and done that far more then I. Cat, Doc, XS, beaverbob etc etc.. I respect the experience these gentlemen have and hope to learn from each of them. When you truly understand what respect is and how it differs from submitting..then you will have learned something. Never mistake kindness for weakness.

Oh and PS.. I happen to enjoy the rants of OFD and the eloquent way he writes. He uses wit and humour to lighten a sometimes raw mood. Besides the guy did my initial Multi/IFR ride some yrs ago and helped me get on with one of the best owner/operators/mentors that Sask aviation has ever had.. we go back a ways. Lighten up.

Fly safe all
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by lost in the north » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:46 pm

You can't mean PA aviation...besides I was just pulling your leg....I do respect your posts
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by co-joe » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:13 am

Can anyone tell me WTF 40/40/40 conditions are? They must have used that expression 10 times but it made no sense to me. Mind you I missed the beginning of the show, but considering how many times they recap everything else that's going on you'd think they could explain that one???
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Meatservo » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:24 am

Prairie Chicken wrote: Meatservo has me worried if—and here I make the assumption that he/she is a fine upstanding & reasonably intelligent member of our society—took you seriously for a bit. If your diatribe sounded realistic, we’re in much bigger trouble than even I believed! By the way, I particularly liked the part about how Joe “grabbed too many marbles in the school yard of life”!
Of course I knew he was joking. I've got to stop making comments here. Please Prairie Chicken don' be worried.

I thought the 40/40/40 thing meant they won't fly if the temperature on the ground at departure, in the air, or on the ground at destination is below minus 40. What I didn't really get is whether they won't fly if it's below minus 40 at any one or more of these three things, or whether it has to be below minus 40 in all three places at once before they won't fly. I'm not sure why the narrator wouldn't just say "below minus 40" instead of reciting "Fourtyfourtyfourty" throughout the show like its a magic word or something.

I'll say again, I like the show. Flying IS exciting, I'm glad the public can share a bit of the drama by watching this show. If they have to spice things up a little, so what. I'm also glad to see the engineers getting their fair share of play too, it's got to be a pretty unique job for those guys as well.
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by JMACK » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:21 am

That really was the best one so far! Loved it. I delivered a C-208 to NBO in 93 stopped in the Azores what an awesome old terminal you could just imagine the old Clippers coming and going in the day. Hope they show some shots in Santa Maria.

Keep up the good work Mr Producer......Lovin It.......Jim
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Prairie Chicken » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:19 am

Hey fly, I agree with you 100%, & well said.
Joe has worked damn hard in a very harsh environment and deserves the few monetary gains he has EARNED by working so hard and diligently. He HAS given many a break to CPL`s both male and female and he follows the regs to the very best of his ability.

Equality is relative. If you want the guy pumping your gas to be paid the same as the guy that owns the service station.. then vote NDP.
As far as north of 60 goes, I didn't want to do that, did that, don't want to do it again... but it was an experience not to be missed. You're right on when you say
All the fancy "tools" available to those south of 60..freeze up in 10 mins at -40 and wont work anyways (hydralics etc etc). You adapt to your surroundings and I believe Buffalo Joe has done a GREAT job at it.
I enjoy the show too, and am happy to see the story being spread around the entire operation.
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Coast-dog » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:54 am

Meatservo wrote:
Prairie Chicken wrote: I thought the 40/40/40 thing meant they won't fly if the temperature on the ground at departure, in the air, or on the ground at destination is below minus 40. What I didn't really get is whether they won't fly if it's below minus 40 at any one or more of these three things, or whether it has to be below minus 40 in all three places at once before they won't fly. I'm not sure why the narrator wouldn't just say "below minus 40" instead of reciting "Fourtyfourtyfourty" throughout the show like its a magic word or something.
It's when the temps in all those 3 places arrive at -40 together, or 'at once' as you said.
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by canwhitewolf » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:58 pm

yes its when its -40 on the ground and -40 at destinat1on and -40 in the air

all three and no fly

however having spent 5-6 years on dc3's I think thats pushing it
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by sky's the limit » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:05 pm

My Wife sat down tonight and watched 20 minutes worth and made one comment:

"Looks like career suicide to me. Why would any low-timer get involved with something like that?"

I've always said she's a lot smarter than me...

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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by No Conflict » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:50 am

I've watched 2 shows... and......

I did the northern thing, worked in the -40 cold and loaded airplanes, and hear time and again on this stupid show about what these rampies are going thru... I LOVED the qoute from the manager guy saying "These guys are not pilots when they come up here, until you know how to load a plane, and can tough it out getting used like slaves for 6 months, then you're a pilot".... what a load of HORSESH*T...

I see the favoritism, the working 7 days a week in extreme conditions, and applaud the rampies for putting up with such BS...Alot of us have done it, and it should not be the start of a so-called professional career.

Instead of teaching these pilots the ins and outs of the routes and planes, they make them sit on the ramp for ages, not even touching a plane unless the CP allows you to sit there in level flight... Now THAT is developing good solid piloting skills, and grooming someone for a safe effiecient captain one day.

These rampie jobs could be used to employ locals for fair pay and working conditions, and use the pilots for what they are intended to do, get the plane, pax and cargo to the destination safely.

I can't see the company hurting too bad after the what, 7 MILLION dollar sale of their CL-215's? Maybe then the pay and working conditions will rise above third world standards.

Just my 2 cents... tired of seeing young pilots getting raped.
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by niss » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:31 am

What kind of Pilots is buffalo turning out? What are the future prospects of a DC3 or C46 Captain after this?
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by canwhitewolf » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:40 am

they will be better at any type of flying after that

man up pilots
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Morav » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:02 pm

Better pilots says who? The Opps manager? AHAHAHA good one!

What kind of Pilots is buffalo turning out? What are the future prospects of a DC3 or C46 Captain after this?
Their future prospects are the same as any other pilot flying commercially in Canada. Flying a DC3 or C46 will get you no where faster, or better than Joe Smith flying a Convair.
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Cat Driver » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:01 pm

You don't think that flying a big tail wheel airplane in the environment that Buffalo operates in dosen't make for a better hands and feet pilot than flying a Convair?

Well I for one disagree with your opinion.

With all due respect of course.

Here is a scenario for you Morav, take a DC3 or a C46 pilot and put him/her in a Convair.

Then take a Convair pilot and put him/her in a DC3 or C46, who do you think will do better during the take offs and landings?
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by niss » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:21 pm

So a 200hr wonder with a multi-ifr does what he can on the ramp then eventually makes Co, then Captain, and in that span he will be no further ahead career wise, or capability wise than someone who went the instructor route or the navajo, or caravan route in the same amount of hours?

It seems to me that Joe can do what ever he wants and it looks to me like the juice is worth the squeeze.

That said, the whole industry shouldn't be this way, but he has kind of a niche area.
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by matt777 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:50 pm

How can someone with C46 or DC3/4 PIC time operating in the North not look better than a guy with the same amount of time flying King Airs around Alberta?
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:53 pm

King air is turbine and has more similarities to the larger more modern aircraft he is now applying for?
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by Double Wasp » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:57 pm

C-GGGQ wrote:King air is turbine and has more similarities to the larger more modern aircraft he is now applying for?
Just tell yourself what ever you have to to get yourself through the night :D LOL

Listen while a king air is more modern, any system can be learned in a groundschool. The hands and feet picked up here as well as the energy management skills that need to be aquired to fly these airplanes can be transfered to any large airplane you will fly. Many of the techniques used to handle these old airplanes are the basis for what is used in large airliners today. Forward planning and profile flying is a must in the old girls and it is taught early, I am not just talking about planning a 500 fpm descent here either.

Now I am not saying that a person can not learn these things while flying a King Air but in my experience it just isn't taught. I also know that there are plenty of good pilots out there who never touched these old airplanes. I for one am glad I did and in the process I learned many things including how I react when stuff goes wrong because guess what... it does go wrong more often in an old airplane and you have to deal with it that is just part of the job.

I love how people talk about being farther ahead in this industry. Ahead of who? Do you think the CP at Buffalo feels he is behind? I doubt it.

Cheers
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Re: Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:49 pm

I was just answering a question. I don't feel either is particularly better than the other, just different. I was just voicing a possible reason why DC3 would or would not be favored over say a King Air. My grandfather was a gov't king air captain for the majority of his career, didn't bother him he never went to the airlines. While I believe flying a DC3 would be a great experience, I also have no desire to work for Buffalo. Just playing devils advocate.
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