Way to go Jetsgo

redbeard · Post by **redbeard** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:22 pm

Whats with all the negativity towards Jetsgo? Calling them unsafe? I doubt it. Sure they had a few incidences, who doesn't? I fly with them a lot to get around and feel very comfortable doing so. Heck when West Jet started they had a lot of screw ups going on, a whole lot more than what's going on at Jetsgo at the moment. Didn't take Transport too long to shut them down. And most of these were pilot goof ups. One can say the same about Canadian and yes Air Canada too.

scm · Post by **scm** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:31 pm

i'm sure someone can come up with at least 30 000 reasons...

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:40 pm

Actually WestJet shut themselves down voluntarily to correct a maintenance schedule issue that had been previously approved by the feds...conspiracy theorists whisper that AC had influenced this to happen, your mileage may vary.

As far as JetsGo, what DID happen to the last big bashing thread, where I (helpfully heheh) pointed out what jackasses people were to parrot comments they'd heard from their friend's sister's brother, who was a private pilot, about how scary SG is?

Did the mods agree with my assessment that perhaps it was a tad too dangerous legally to publish completely unfounded allegations of danger? Where oh where did it go?!

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:05 pm

Sorry but that’s not quite true, WJ was within hours of been shut down by TC…Oh and AC had nothing to do with it so quit drinking that toxic non-factical WJ drink that you folks are so famous for.

Skipper · Post by **Skipper** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:12 pm

Wouldn't it be cool if the banks offered a "JetsGo" package when you chose your mortgage. It would save a load of paperwork, and you could begin saving early, so you'll have more to lay on the line for that big career move.

Just a thought...

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:53 pm

Rebel wrote:Sorry but that’s not quite true, WJ was within hours of been shut down by TC…Oh and AC had nothing to do with it so quit drinking that toxic non-factical WJ drink that you folks are so famous for.

Better check your own facts there son.

When WestJet initially began operations they were operating on a Transport-approved maintenance program used by Astoria and Canadian Airlines (the source of at least three of their first 200's). This was basically the same maintenance schedule used by the former owners, and was approved by Transport in Calgary.

But strangely enough, in September 1996, during their first full audit, Transport arbitrarily decides this isn't acceptable, and takes the position that the program approved by the local feds should never have been approved. Instead, WestJet should have been using the standard maintenance planning document (MPD) designed by Boeing. Ergo, WestJet will fail the audit.

Duh. Kinda hard to be in compliance with rules that are changed after the fact.

WestJet proposed an interim solution, promising to change the maintenance schedule within 90 days. Ottawa refuses. I wonder why? Why wouldn't David Anderson even meet with Beddoe and lawyers? Geez that's hard to understand.

So instead of waiting to get the OC pulled, WestJet grounds itself, and brought every single part on 4 737's up to the "new" MPD spec. 18 days later, the airline was up and running again. It was NOT some "safety" issue, it was clerical and political through and through.

So if you're going to dispute what I'm saying, at least have the facts to back it up. It pisses me off you've put me in a position of defending a company I don't even like but I dislike ignorance even more than WJ's stupid jokes.

As far as the idea that another certain major carrier exerted influence in the MPD fiasco, it's not exactly a leap of logic to suggest it happened. As more recent events have proven neither AC or WJ is above stooping to underhanded tacics.

I have absolutely no love lost for WestJet, I think they've done an incredible amount of damage to the industry in terms of the proverbial "lowering the bar" on pilot wages, in spite of a few hires near the top of the pyramid making a fortune on stock options. So don't even think of pulling the tired old koolaid line on me, get some new material. I'm just here for laughs and occasionally call *cough* bullsh&t when I see it...

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:08 am

Sorry but you still don’t have the story right and I’m not your son. I was told right from the horse’s mouth that TC was within hours of pulling the plug on WJ and if I recall correctly the Edmonton Journal reported the correct scenario as to what went down including the unauthorized movement of aircraft. I repeat AC had nothing to do with any part of it because Montreal didn’t know about it but Calgary CDN employees knew. If it hadn’t been for the maintenance expertise of CDN employees WJ probably wouldn’t have gotten off the ground.

I certainly agree that WJ has contributed to the demise of the industry wages and working conditions although in all fairness if it wasn’t them then it would have been some other start-up. The consumers of the world are out of step with the realities of the operating costs of flying airplanes. I suspect that a few bad accidents will act as a wake-up call that airplanes can’t be flown safely on a shoe string budget.

talkinghead · Post by **talkinghead** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:31 am

"I was told right from the horse’s mouth that TC was within hours of pulling the plug on WJ and if I recall correctly the Edmonton Journal reported the correct scenario as to what went down including the unauthorized movement of aircraft."

The horse's mouth, What horse was that? Who cares that TC was within hours of pulling the OC. WJ BEAT them to it. AND thats the kicker it did nothing put good for there (later) public image.
Also WJ did not lay one emplyee off while they had their doors closed.
so there, nanananaaaaaa

I thought this thread was about JETSGO???

Rubberbiscuit · Post by **Rubberbiscuit** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:01 am

This was basically the same maintenance schedule used by the former owners, and was approved by Transport in Calgary.

But strangely enough, in September 1996, during their first full audit, Transport arbitrarily decides this isn't acceptable, and takes the position that the program approved by the local feds should never have been approved. Instead, WestJet should have been using the standard maintenance planning document (MPD) designed by Boeing. Ergo, WestJet will fail the audit.

Well that sounds like what just happened to SG. Our RVSM program was approved by TC, to later be disapproved during audit findings.

flynbutcher · Post by **flynbutcher** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:39 am

hey complexintentions, how long before your 30 grand is paid off

Longtimer · Post by **Longtimer** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:08 am

talkinghead wrote:"I was told right from the horse’s mouth that TC was within hours of pulling the plug on WJ and if I recall correctly the Edmonton Journal reported the correct scenario as to what went down including the unauthorized movement of aircraft."

The horse's mouth, What horse was that? Who cares that TC was within hours of pulling the OC. WJ BEAT them to it. AND thats the kicker it did nothing put good for there (later) public image.
Also WJ did not lay one emplyee off while they had their doors closed.
so there, nanananaaaaaa
I thought this thread was about JETSGO???

From the Transport Canada Web site.

No. 143/96
For release September 17, 1996
TRANSPORT CANADA ISSUES NOTICE
OF SUSPENSION TO WESTJET AIRLINES

OTTAWA - Transport Canada today gave WestJet Airlines a formal notice of suspension of its operating certificate. The action means the company's operating certificate will be suspended if it does not address deficiencies within 15 days.

A scheduled audit of WestJet is currently under way, with the company's full cooperation. As a result of preliminary findings, WestJet has voluntarily ceased operations of its four aircraft.

"Safety is Transport Canada's first priority," said Transport Minister David Anderson. "We are acting today out of an abundance of caution."

The two requirements that must be met by WestJet within 15 days are:
1. The company must appoint a qualified individual to be responsible for aircraft maintenance.
2. The company must implement an aircraft maintenance system that meets Transport Canada requirements.

"Canadians expect all airlines to meet the highest safety standards, and our job is to ensure they do," said Mr. Anderson.

Transport Canada conducts onsite surveillance for up to six months after startup of a new airline, and conducts an audit at the end of the six-month period. WestJet received an operating certificate from the department in March 1996. The audit began September 9, 1996.

Passengers who have made travel arrangements with WestJet are advised to contact the carrier directly.

- 30 -

No. 154/96
For release September 30, 1996
TRANSPORT CANADA LIFTS NOTICE OF
IMPENDING SUSPENSION OF WESTJET AIRLINES

WINNIPEG -- Transport Canada today announced it has lifted the notice of impending suspension of WestJet Airline's operating certificate. The notice was served on WestJet September 17 after Transport Canada discovered during a routine audit that the air carrier was not following approved maintenance procedures.

The notice gave the carrier 15 days to meet two conditions set by the department or have its operating certificate suspended. Those two conditions were as follows:

* that WestJet appoint a qualified individual to be responsible for aircraft maintenance; and

* that it implement an aircraft maintenance system that meets Transport Canada requirements.

WestJet now meets both of these conditions.

Under the Aeronautics Act and Canadian Aviation Regulations, an air carrier must possess a valid operating certificate, which pertains to the airline as a whole, and valid certificates of airworthiness for each aircraft it operates.

Since September 17, two of WestJet's aircraft have been inspected and certified. Similar inspections must be carried out on the company's remaining two aircraft before they are returned to service.

Canada has one of the most enviable aviation safety records in the world. The federal government is firmly committed to ensuring it stays that way. Air carriers operating in Canada, including WestJet, meet stringent safety standards and work with Transport Canada to ensure maximum safety for the traveling public.

- 30 -

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:31 pm

Hey scm, get it straight - its 32K ok? jeese.

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:16 pm

Hey Rebel,

It's pretty hard to argue with someone who keeps repeating the same statement that matches what I related...I never said WJ wasn't close to being shut down, you missed the point entirely. As talkinghead pointed out, WJ went from defense to offence by VOLUNTARILY shutting down ops to meet the "new" MPD, whether by hours or minutes is completely irrelevant. Which is supported by the second paragraph of the Transport excerpt Longtimer kindly posted. Instead of letting themselves getting blindsided by Transport, which is the only way to describe the situation when Transport themselves reversed positions on their own position. To suggest "Montreal didn't know about it" is pretty naive. I can tell you Ottawa was getting an earful from WJ themselves, yeah there's no AC lobbyists there...Whatever, it's all history now, believe any version you want. As far as the ex-CDN AME's yep, they pretty much saved WJ getting those 200's switched over...RIP Canadian...

As to flynbutcher, lol what a jackass!

I've stated often that I do not work for SG, in any capacity, nor is it a goal of mine to ever be employed there...the "oh you work there" comment is among the lamest on this forum...I have colleagues at WJ, SG, most major airlines worldwide employing Canadians...like the guys, dislike both the companies. Nuthin' more.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:37 am

Hey Just another pilot. get it straight it's 30k ok... jeese.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:16 pm

I wonder what the average experience level existed at WJ in the first few years compared to SG's?

pimper · Post by **pimper** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:53 pm

I'm curious as to whats going to happen when the AC/Jazz pilots have their 30 grand paid off and leave. Or when the industry turns around like it seems to be doing now and SG pilots take off for greener pasteurs when the 30 Grand is paid.

... · Post by **...** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:23 pm

pimper wrote:I'm curious as to whats going to happen when the AC/Jazz pilots have their 30 grand paid off and leave. Or when the industry turns around like it seems to be doing now and SG pilots take off for greener pasteurs when the 30 Grand is paid.

Why, are you planning to join the exodus as well?

pimper · Post by **pimper** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:50 pm

I think you know there are lots of things that I could say about SG but I don't becuase it serves no positive purpose. I gave them 2 years to get their act straight which was up a while ago. There are lots of rumors about SG that are totally without merrit that seem to come from other carriers or the peanut gallery. For me it boils down to one thing, does the company allow me to take pride in my job? With that said, if something comes my way I will be on the first train out of here.

... · Post by **...** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:05 am

pimper wrote:I think you know there are lots of things that I could say about SG but I don't becuase it serves no positive purpose. I gave them 2 years to get their act straight which was up a while ago. There are lots of rumors about SG that are totally without merrit that seem to come from other carriers or the peanut gallery. For me it boils down to one thing, does the company allow me to take pride in my job? With that said, if something comes my way I will be on the first train out of here.

Pimper!! You are admitting you will/are leaving the very company that you have so passionately defended? All our heated emotionally charged arguments about SG and its working conditions and the 30K and everything else we discussed...and you are deciding to leave all that SG glory you so aggressively stood up for?

...This has caught me off guard!!! However I am happy that you are moving onto better yet sad that you contributed to polluting this industry and drove off without picking up your rubbish.

I guess it is true...there is nothing left to stand up for in this industry...no common decency...not to anyone else including the up and comers...or even to them selves.

pimper · Post by **pimper** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:35 am

I'll tell you what Bird Dog. When you pay your employee's all year long instead of pointing them to the nearest EI office when you are done using them for the summer, then you can talk to me.

When you thank the pilots at Royal who kept the bond out even though the owner was getting screwed by PPC jumping pilots then you can talk to me.

When you reach a level in the industry where training expenses include more then a couple of touch and goes in a 337 and can litteraly sink your company then you can talk to me.

When you can pull your head out of your ass long enough to see more then one view point, then you can talk to me.

Cheers