Accident Investigation Report for Scott Manning

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Guido
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BD-5 Crash Near Ottawa

Post by Guido »

Doesn't look good for the pilot... :? Thoughts and prayers to the families involved.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... crash.html


Some info on the type: http://www.bd-micro.com/
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Hedley
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Miss Mae
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Post by Miss Mae »

Very sad :( sending prayers to the friends and family
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Bede
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Post by Bede »

Was that Scott Manning?
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Hedley
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Post by Hedley »

Yes.
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BTD
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Post by BTD »

Saw it happen... not very pretty :(

Thoughts to his family as well.
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Post by Hedley »

I hope he didn't suck a bird. There's a HUGE landfill site just south of Carp, and a couple years ago, after repeated bird strikes, the Snowbirds swore they'd never come back.
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Post by . ._ »

My condolences.
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BTD
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Post by BTD »

The snowbirds are coming back this year. Maybe they have forgotten. I didn't see a bird and the reports are that the engine was still running after he was down. I have been out here since Oct and the birds haven't been as bad as you would think considering the landfill.

No more June airshows for me. I saw what happened last year in Oshawa. Sad day.
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Post by Bede »

That sucks. Scott was a really nice guy. Lent me his plans for about fiv years.
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Post by grimey »

That's 3 fatal crashes I can remember at or related to the Ottawa airshow. My mom refuses to go anymore after the first 2 (a P-51 at YOW years back, and another aircraft at Carp a couple years earlier). Then my brother's friend gets hit by lighting a couple years later.

What happened at Oshawa?
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no name
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Post by no name »

First, my condolences to his friends and family.
Hedley wrote:I hope he didn't suck a bird. There's a HUGE landfill site just south of Carp, and a couple years ago, after repeated bird strikes, the Snowbirds swore they'd never come back.
Hadn't heard that from the Snowbirds but I believe it. I can say I fly beside garbage mountain everytime I do circuits on 28 though & have seen quite a few s-hawks around there. Quite the problem at Rump's dump actually when I worked about 10 years ago.

Have talked to some people who were around YRP this am. Word was they "...saw the microjet departing runway 28 and after gaining some speed in ground effect, initiated a loop from aprox 15-20feet off by taxiway Alpha. Didnt make it, and crashed approx 100 feet off the threshold of 01 in the bush". - taken from another forum.
grimey wrote:That's 3 fatal crashes I can remember at or related to the Ottawa airshow. My mom refuses to go anymore after the first 2 (a P-51 at YOW years back, and another aircraft at Carp a couple years earlier). Then my brother's friend gets hit by lighting a couple years later.
I remember the P-51 crash. I can't remember the other one... The 188 had just landed and was at show centre on the ground, I remember taking a picture of the 188 and you can see the mustang as a blur in the background falling into the trees in the golf course. I didn't believe what I saw until the explosion happened....
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Last edited by no name on Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

...
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Post by ... »

When you said Birddog 5 my heart dropped.

It was a military BD5, not the forest fighting Birddog #5.

I too will be sending prayers to the family.

My condolences.
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Last edited by ... on Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

ch135146
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Post by ch135146 »

grimey wrote:...a P-51 at YOW years back...
That was July 1, 1990, during the airshow at Ottawa/Uplands. A high speed pass and pull up, pilot stalled it, impact on a golf course near by.
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BTD
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Post by BTD »

Just to be clear (not to speculate) I had been watching his practice for about 15 min and he had just done the low pass where he cycles the gear up and down and looked like he was climbing after that. It was at the far side off the departure end of 28 that he went down. Then it could have been a roll but it is to early to tell what happened.

Thats what I saw.
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bmc
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Post by bmc »

ch135146 wrote:
grimey wrote:...a P-51 at YOW years back...
That was July 1, 1990, during the airshow at Ottawa/Uplands. A high speed pass and pull up, pilot stalled it, impact on a golf course near by.
I remembered it differently. He was doing formation with a Hurricane. They were returning to do a pass, coming from the south by the golf course. He rolled it and started down. I remember thinking he was awfully low to execute that maneuver, and then thinking I hope there's a bit of a valley there for a pullout.

I got home to YYC and found the latest issue of Sport Aviation in my mailbox. The issue had an article on what was the best frontline fighter of WW2. The P-51 used in that evaluation was Death Rattler, flown by Harry Tope from the Kalamazoo museum. Harry was flying that machine that crashed. Sickening thing to watch.

The article in the magazine compared a number of parameters between 3-4 fighters. One was stall characteristics. They described the P-51 as having a wicked break when it stalled, with the plane rolling as much as 270 degrees when the stall broke. They went on to add that you should have at least 3000' of altitude to recover from a stall.

Sorry for the hi-jack.

Condolences to all.
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linecrew
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Post by linecrew »

I am Birddog wrote:When you said Birddog 5 my heart dropped.

It was a military BD5, not the forest fighting Birddog #5.
The BD-5J is a homebuilt jet and not a military aircraft. It was a Canadian registered machine.

Image
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Post by Hedley »

the P-51 as having a wicked break when it stalled, with the plane rolling as much as 270 degrees
I've flown (and stalled) the P-51, and with it's NLF wing, it does have VERY interesting stall characteristics. It has an honest-to-gosh secondary stall - you couldn't just horse the stick back after the stall, like you can in a Cessna - you had to be patient, and gently milk it out, with great care given to the AOA.

Frankly the P-51, although it makes great noises, is not the easiest to fly aerobatics in. Pull a tiny bit extra G, and all the speed bleeds off.

In 30 years of flying, the P-51 and the Glasair III had the most interesting stall/spin characteristics.

Back on topic ... it sure sounds like poor Scott missed his gate (for the surface-level inside loop) and paid the price :cry:
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Re: BD-5 Crash Near Ottawa

Post by grimey »

TSB report has been posted online.

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/a ... 6o0141.asp
Finding as to Causes and Contributing Factors

1. The right flap was incorrectly installed during the wing installation, which allowed the right flap to retract during the fly-past. This created a flap asymmetry that resulted in an uncommanded and uncontrollable right roll. The aircraft was at an altitude from which recovery was not possible before the aircraft struck the ground.
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Brewguy
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Accident Investigation Report for Scott Manning

Post by Brewguy »

For anyone else who may have known Scott, this report has been a while in coming. I'd been checking on the TSB site on occasion, and sure enough came across it just now. It's pretty well what had been speculated (split flaps). What a damn shame.

For anyone interested, the report is here: AVIATION REPORTS - 2006 - A06O0141

I still miss that guy. :(
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Cheers,
Brew

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BTD
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Re: Accident Investigation Report for Scott Manning

Post by BTD »

Hey Neil,

I'd been watching for that too. I think its been out for a few months. I was instructing out of Carp at the time. I was there that day and saw it happen. I'm sorry for your loss.

I also saw the ultralight that crashed in Oshawa 4 years ago. There is nothing more sad than seeing an accident happen.

BTD
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Re: Accident Investigation Report for Scott Manning

Post by bbb »

Thanks Neil. thats been a long time coming...

and BTD, knew both those guys.... and familys.
The list grows longer every year, unfortunately.
Thats why some of us get really pi..ed off when someone does something so totally preventable and winds up as another statistic.
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Widow
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Re: Accident Investigation Report for Scott Manning

Post by Widow »

This report concludes the Transportation Safety Board's investigation into this occurrence. Consequently, the Board authorized the release of this report on 02 May 2007.
Date Modified: 2009-05-08
Two years to translate?

There doesn't seem to be anything in the TC ASLs at the time of release either.

I'm very sorry for your loss.
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CD
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Re: Accident Investigation Report for Scott Manning

Post by CD »

Widow wrote:
Date Modified: 2009-05-08
Two years to translate?
You generally cannot determine when a particular page was posted based solely on that information. While it is not likely that it took that length of time for translation, it is difficult to know for certain based only on when it appeared online. Most of the government websites, as part of the CLF standard, include an information note such as:
Date modified (General)

Last updated refers to the date when the information was put on this Web site, when it was revised or when it was last reviewed for accuracy. If you wish more precise information, please view the source code, which has entries for date created, date modified and date valid (date for review). Due to their dynamic nature, on pages generated by a database, the date statement refers only to the page creation and not to the content that is being supplied.
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