Eagle Jet first officer program (USA)

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helinas
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Eagle Jet first officer program (USA)

Post by helinas » Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:51 am

Got information from eagle jet out of miami regarding their first officer program specifically the twin otter program. It is a part 91 operation dropping parachuties from a twin otter. Can I a canadian commercial pilot log the right seat time to be valid here in Canada?

Any help would be appreciated. bang head
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corn-shoot
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Post by corn-shoot » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:31 am

That's a negative, EagleJet requires you to convert your licenses BEFORE you can become an industry dirtbag and start paying for a job.

:oops:



Now where's my rubber hose?
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Post by searching » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:07 am

helinas,

I believe to enter the program, you do need FAA ratings, but if you were accepted into the training program, all flight time would be loggable as flight time (SIC), as long as their ops ceritficate stated that it was a two pilot operation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
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helinas
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Post by helinas » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:41 am

After talking to them, they say all I need to do is show up with my Canadian Private Pilot Licence and they will simply give me an American FAA private licence and from there I will jump in the right seat of a twin otter or king air 90 and be on the right seat dropping parachutists. This is really confusing, anybody with some experience with these first officer programs in the states, anybody? bang head
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MAX EGT
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Post by MAX EGT » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:11 am

Hmmm... Helinas, let's just take this apart piece by piece...
I'm in the same boat trying to find my first job, but I can see plain as day that this will NOT work.

F/O program in the States to fly right seat dropping meat patties... This is a commercial operator, so I guess you would need a commercial license to sit right seat on revenue flights with a PPC or PCC on type. Since it's the US, I guess that would be a US commercial license required. Training, tested and licences issued in the gold old USA by the FAA. Then there's the legal aspect of working in the US... good luck.

The FAA will still do a straight private conversion with paperwork over the counter, but you'll only be able to fly or receive dual instruction (I think)

Anyone else got more info?
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Post by jimmyjazz » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:42 am

I don't know much about this so I'm speculating. Is the decent and landing of a jump flight part of a revenue flight or can they call that "dual instruction" and get around it that way thus making money on the jumpers on the way up and the "FO" on the way down?
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Post by Panama Jack » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:50 am

Who cares? It's scummy hours, so why try to dress it up and make it look honorable? Besides, FO time on a Twin Otter? Image
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Post by MAX EGT » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:53 am

jimmyjazz, I'll bite on that one.
If it were a single pilot operaton, I believe they could do that. But if it's a two crew deal, then you need 2 certified pilots right? The airplane has to get up there under revenue rules before it comes down [:P]

Seriously though, I'm getting kinda curious myself!

C'mon PJ, there are some of us that aren't flying anything yet! Give us less fortunate aspiring souls a break, man. It doesn't mean I would ever pay for training, but everybody should share any information they have... Good or bad.
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Call TC

Post by cyyz » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:01 am

Don't do it.

Transport Canada is the first place you need to call. Hopefully you'll get some who'll be useful just ask for the manager..

Converting US SIC time to Canadian time is rarely recognised.

I was going to just do a plain old fashion Multi pump 250 hours for $8k. But TC said they probably wouldn't recognise more then 1/4th of the flight time because in the states the FAA has it's regs messed up according to him. So if you don't have an ATPL, don't do it since the hours won't count.

I don't know how employers look at these hour pumping programs. Maybe you'd want to call some up at AC or WJ.
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Post by Mango » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:45 am

Never done it, and never will but hearing from past experiences on other forums, this is my take on it:

For the most part, these stupid programs are targeted towards the scum operators who only flies single pilot cargo operations and this is applicable to pistons and turboprops. Therefore, in the US, if you are stupid enough to pay these criminals money to seat right seat, it is not recognized because their ops specs stated for the above reasons. These operators operate under Part 135 which is similar to our 703. Part 121 is our 705.
Most jump operators are under Part 91, which is general operating rules as they don't meet the requirements and/or are not require to meet 135 standards.

However, if your daddy is rich and you decide to go for the jet program, now it's a different ball game as these jet operators require two crews. Again, however, check the regs!

A lot of Europeans are doing these programs because apparently JAR rules recgonize these hours (especially for aircraft over 12,500lbs) or as they call it JAR 25 (someone correct me if I am wrong).

As for Canada, I would suggest talking to TC before paying your money to those bloodsuckers.

May I suggest checking out this US forum http://www.flightinfo.com and simply do a search under PFT or First Officer Program and hopefully it will convince you NOT to take this route.

Why go through all this mess though? Go out there, knock on doors and work hard for that first flying job. Be persistent and don't give up...trust me, we were all there once.....
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Last edited by Mango on Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by cyyz » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:48 am

Mango wrote: Why go through all this mess though? Go out there, knock on doors and work hard for that first flying job. Be persistent and don't give up...trust me, we were all there once.....
It's seems easier to skip step 2 and thats why many people go for these "Officer Training" programs.
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Post by searching » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:20 pm

"May I suggest checking out this US forum http://www.flightinfo.com and simply do a search under PFT or First Officer Program and hopefully it will convince you NOT to take this route"

Yea, and if you read the names, and the number of poeple on flightinfo who actually post negative about PFT, the names are always the same, and there are VERY FEW of them that give a rats ARSE. Look at the polls on that board, the number of people who vote anti-PFT range from 50 people to 70, that is OUT OF almost 14,000 members. Pretty small percentage.

I am a flight instructor, and I graduated from a large flight school univeristy, I have NEVER met one pilot, Profesional or student, who cared about PFT either way. We have even had airline guys come in and discuss these programs, and not one negative thing was said.

Sorry to illustrate the truth to those who have a problem with this practice, but most pilots just don't care. But keep in mind, it is always BETTER to get PAID, as this is our ultimate goal, I woud hope.

To each his own.


But DEFINATELY call Transport and ask FIRST.
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Post by blade230 » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:29 pm

This argument about PFT always goes on between the same people.
It will never end. What it come down too, is if it works for you, fine, but if you can get paid to fly multi, or even better, turbine, that would be ideal. In the United States, PFT was a REQUIREMENT at almost every single US regioanl airline in the 90's, and the thousands upon thousands of pilots who had to PFT, much like Jetsgo, (but sometimes without reimbursement) sure don't have a problem with it. Looks like not manny have a problem with Jetsgo either, and that is PFT.
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Post by helinas » Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:48 am

thanks guys for the feedback on this matter. I feel the same way, but just needed some more info or other people's experience with this. I don't think TC would recognize most of this time and I know for a fact that at least it would be 50 percent of any twin time, but I never felt good about it in the first place. Now about getting that first job and working hard for it, I did, up in Northern Ontario flying a 185 on floats putting in 12 to 14 hour days being a bush pilot and I loved it. I am looking for that elusive second job as the first one shut down due to insurance requirements.
Guys, thanks again for the info, I will not do it and I appreciate the great advice and let's try to be there for each other with any other info that we could pass by. BS
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Building time

Post by 172pilot » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:01 am

I'll stir the pot here a bit. What do the chief pilots on this board think of someone who applies but built some of their time (multi) using these programs down in the states such as Gulfstream?
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Post by Panama Jack » Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:37 am

blade230 wrote:Looks like not manny have a problem with Jetsgo either, and that is PFT.
Is it? I thought it was a repayable deposit-- kinda like a bond. After two years, paid back $30K plus 8%. Can't say I am a big fan of it either.

Us more experienced pilots (crowbar in hand) often find ourselves crowding newer pilots into a dark alley corner with the sermon of "don't ever work for free." Somebody tell me how not only working for free, but having the cash flow going in the wrong direction is somehow more innocent.
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Post by Mike » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:42 pm

All twin otter jump ships are single pilot. The right seat is for jumpers or a new pilot going in the left.
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Post by g-girl » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:47 pm

"Is it? I thought it was a repayable deposit-- kinda like a bond. After two years, paid back $30K plus 8%."

Any place you give money to for training/hours/or a job, that is considered PFT. It doesn't matter if it gets paid back or not. If a person puts forth money to a company, that is PFT.

Still though, I would take a job a Jetsgo if I had the time. Guess I will hang in the hold for a while.
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Post by Panama Jack » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:28 pm

g-girl wrote:"Any place you give money to for training/hours/or a job, that is considered PFT. It doesn't matter if it gets paid back or not. If a person puts forth money to a company, that is PFT.
With all due respect g-girl, and without me trying to defend Jetsgo, I think there is a big difference between a) signing a bond, b) putting up the money-- which is held and repaid at the end of a set term and with interest paid, and c) simply paying the money, never to be seen again (bye bye money).
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