Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

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Invertago
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Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by Invertago »

Airline Pilot Shortage Looming

Posted on 06 May 2009

With thousands of pilots on furlough it seems counter intuitive to say a shortage is coming. However the numbers are clear, and show a steep decline in commercial pilot licenses from 1990 to 2007 (last year FAA data is available). So the question is who will fly the airliners of tomorrow?

Active Commercial Pilot Licenses (Airplane) have plummeted from 128,628 in 1990 to 91,282 in 2007 a 30% drop. In the same period of time the Airline Transport Pilot rating (ATP) has climbed 25% (105,830 to 139,554). An ATP is required to captain a scheduled airliner of any size. A cursory look shows a 35% shortfall in the future. Certainly not all ATPs are currently flying due to the economy and state of air travel in the USA. However, this pool of experienced aviators is evaporating rapidly; and even the furloughed pilots are getting older. The International (IATA) and domestic regulators (FAA) have kicked the can down the road five years by raising mandatory retirment to 65, but a year and a half of that delay tactic has already expired with no sound solution.

IATA has come up with a dangerous try at a solution for International airlines; the Multi-crew Pilot License (MPL). Basically the MPL will certify a student in approximately a year with less hours (in an actual aircraft) than an average airline pilot flies in two weeks and a mere 200 hours in a CAT IV simulator. That doesn’t even meet the standards for a Private pilot (40 hours) or a commercial pilot (250 or 190 hours if in a Part 141 school) let alone an ATP (1,500).

So what is the solution? First we must examine the cause; quite simply the job is not economically feasible at today’s entry pay rates. Further complicating the economics is the fact that the top end pay no longer is the draw it once was. There is no return on investment. In the nineteen fifties a pilot license could be purchased for $100, a Captain was one of the highest paid professionals in the country and a first Officer made up to 10 times what a Police Officer, for example, made.

Last year my son paid $150 dollars for a single flight hour of instruction. When he moves to the right seat of a Jet Airliner he will make less than half what a St. Louis County Police Officer will make and his training (Policeman) is free (St. Louis County). He will be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and won’t even equal what the maximum pay of a Police Officer gets until he makes Regional Captain, which could take years.

I use the Police Profession because the personalities are similar; someone who is adventurous, not afraid of danger and generally does not want to sit at a desk. Had I used doctor, Lawyer or Nurse Anesthetist, any profession that required a similar investment in time or funds, the numbers would be eye watering. My daughter will enter the Nurse Anesthetist program in the fall; when she graduates she will make 10 times what her older brother will. And yes, I did have him in pre-med before he decided he absolutely had to enter the family business.

Back to the solution; what is it? Simple really, if the pay is not commensurate with the skills and cost required you will not get enough applicants to do it at all, let alone the best and brightest. Instant airline pilots via the MPL program, besides being unsafe IMO, still doesn’t solve the problem because they cannot be a Captain. Ultimately you will get what you pay for.


So, we have a looming pilot shortage because it isn't financially viable anymore? Go figure...
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teacher
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by teacher »

This does not suprise me at all however it'll still be many years before this is felt. If anything it'll be the smaller companies that feel it most I think. Most airlines I believe are forcast to peek mid to late in teh next decade in terms of retirements so this whole thing is a ways away and that's assuming another massive down turn does not occur.
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Tango01
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by Tango01 »

Do not panic! I am pumping out fresh meat into the industry for you all. :D

Next up..Arthur, he's almost ready even type rated on the 777 (if only I can get him to face the right way...)

http://www.princessmonkey.com/monkeys/flying.html
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by blockheater »

"Active Commercial Pilot Licenses (Airplane) have plummeted from 128,628 in 1990 to 91,282 in 2007 a 30% drop. In the same period of time the Airline Transport Pilot rating (ATP) has climbed 25% (105,830 to 139,554). An ATP is required to captain a scheduled airliner of any size. A cursory look shows a 35% shortfall in the future."

So... what you are saying is that all the CPLs are getting their ATPLs.... I thought that was the way it was supposed to go :rolleyes:

However, if there's a 30% drop and a 25% climb... wouldn't the net shortfall only show 5% right now?

Pilot shortage... My Arse...
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by altiplano »

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Last edited by altiplano on Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by Carrier »

When did IATA take over from ICAO?
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sport
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by sport »

altiplano wrote:Actually, overall drop in FAA pilots licenced to CPL/ATPL would be less than 2%.
The real problem is the number of student pilots. Check the stats and see what the numbers look like the last couple of years and compare. Looks to me like the numbers have not been this low since 1955. The total number of pilots has also dropped dramatically.

The number of student pilots completing is also an issue.

My guess is 2012 will be an interesting year when it comes to where have all the pilots gone.

Check out the stats below.

http://www.aopa.org/special/newsroom/stats/pilots.html

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviati ... tics/2008/
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by RVR6000 »

Some of you guys sound like flight school owners, there is no shortage of pilots and won't be any for the near future. Just look at the views on a new job post.
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captain_dc
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by captain_dc »

Pilot shortage?

Just like global warming for those of us that live in the north...can't come soon enouph!

And when and if a pilot shortage ever does happen (and I sure hope it does) The companies that have been paying sub standard wages for the jobs that we do better not expect us not to take advantage of the suply demand reversal. What I mean to say is , as they are taking advantage of us we will do the same to them and bring our wages up not just to what they should be but far enouph above for long enouph to cover the lower wages paid over the last few decades. I know this is a pipe dream, but hey, we're all dreamers arn't we?

On the same note, don't you think there should be some kind of regulated minimum wage for profesions like ours? I like the idea of an independent assesment determining a minimum pay rate...just a thought.

DC
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by Carrier »

Quote: "....don't you think there should be some kind of regulated minimum wage for profesions like ours?"

There is! Somebody enquired on PPRuNe about pilot pay at drop zones and received the following response:

"Employers are required to pay professional pilots at least the minimum wage. This was checked some years ago with Manpower or whatever the feds call it now. The response indicated that there is no actual federal minimum wage so the Feds use the minimum wage in each province or territory. eg, if you are employed as a jump pilot in Ontario your employer is required to pay you at least the Ontario minimum wage.
Competent and ethical drop zones comply with the law. Whether they pay by the hour or by the load their pay does work out to meet the minimum wage standard. There are usually a few perks such as a free beer at the end of the day, free meals at the drop zone cafe or even a free jump if you are nuts enough.
There are rumoured to be some drop zone operators who pay below the minimum, do not pay their pilots at all or expect pilots to pay them to fly. Such operators are breaking the law and by extension probably have invalidated their insurance. Also it is a fair and reasonable assumption that if an operator is breaking the law in one area (pay) it is almost certainly doing the same in other areas such as maintenance, flying overloaded, ignoring safe operating procedures, etc. Stay well clear of such scumbags!"

http://www.pprune.org/canada/399089-working-canada.html
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by Wilbur »

Technology will take care of any possible pilot shortage at the airliner level. How long does anyone really think it will be before automation allows airliners to be flown single pilot on short to medium distance flights and only two pilots on long hauls?
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by CanadianEh »

Wilbur wrote:Technology will take care of any possible pilot shortage at the airliner level. How long does anyone really think it will be before automation allows airliners to be flown single pilot on short to medium distance flights and only two pilots on long hauls?
As long as we keep seeing media headlines of pilots becoming incapacitated in flight (or dying in some cases), I doubt that will happen.
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by v6g »

Wilbur wrote:How long does anyone really think it will be before automation allows airliners to be flown single pilot on short to medium distance flights and only two pilots on long hauls?
Not long. DHL is already in discussion with the FAA and Boeing about it.
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by AME 283 »

:prayer: We have the technology, in most major airports pilots can be replaced by a computer chip, auto does a lot of work already !!! :prayer:
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by twinpratts »

Heard that in the next 4 yrs 1/3rd of all the pilots at Big Red will retire... That's a pretty big demand if you ask me.
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by Panama Jack »

It will be very interesting to see what effect the new comprehensive open aviation agreement will have on pilot demand, particularly after foreign ownership restrictions are lifted and the fourth phase, allowing airlines to operate between and beyond EU and Canadian markets and will also permit cabotage services will have on pilot recruitment.

The essential problem in Canada, as I see it, is the transition for low-time pilots with Commercial licences to transport category aircraft. The traditional method has been via years and years of time building in flight operations that barely resemble the end goals of many pilots. This also creates a potential bottle-neck, since the amount of experienced, "quality" applicants via this method is limited in the event of a sudden strong demand (a large amount of retirement and/or rapid growth or the entry of a new large competitor).

MPL is OK if done correctly, however, I feel that the industry could get better results by getting more involved at the grass roots level in the traditional licencing process to produce new pilots with Commercial Multi-IFR licences with the skills and aptitudes for direct-entry into the airlines in the way that airlines such as Korean Air, Lufthansa and others have been doing for years. The problem is that most flight schools are gearing their students for their first realistic-job-- either charter/bush flying, or flight instruction. In Canada, no airlines presently take any interest in pilots will less than thousands of hours of flight time and I think that this practice is short-sighted in the long term.

As for single-pilot airlines? I don't see that happening thanks to the lessons learned from the synergies of CRM. More likely though would be a transition from a two-crew to a pilotless flight deck.
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by g5 »

v6g wrote: Not long. DHL is already in discussion with the FAA and Boeing about it.

Where did you hear that? Got any links?
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by N181CS »

I dont ever see a day when the paying public will get on fully automated airplanes, they just wont feel comfortable. Im sure there are situations where having a pilot on board or not would have made no difference and some where the pilot made it worse, but I can say this I feel way more comfortable that there life is on the line so they will fight as hard as they can to save them selfs and you as a side effect.
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by CD »

Student pilot earns wings, cash
Algonquin College pilots in demand


Dec 23, 2009 - 11:49 AM

One Algonquin College student was flying a little higher than his peers on Dec. 16.

Devin Vasic will graduate from the college’s aviation program early next year, and got a financial lift from the Air Canada Pilots’ Association, earning a $1,000 bursary and the Dave Edward/Tom Jerrard Award.

The award was presented during a ceremony at the Ottawa Flying Club by Air Canada captain James Delgaty, who flies passenger jets for the airline.

“We want to help young aspiring flight students,” Delgaty said, adding some advice for Vasic and his classmates at the ceremony. “Persistence is the key.”

The commercial pilot and aviation management program is the most expensive course offered at Algonquin. Students spend 16 consecutive months studying and flying at a cost of about $50,000.

Vasic said the $1,000 bursary is already ear-marked.

“The cheque’s going right to my parents as soon as I get it,” he said.

Vasic said his short-term goal is to teach at the OFC right after graduation, and in the long term he would like to be a pilot with Perimeter Airlines in Manitoba. He said he’s already flown the Beechcraft 76 twin-engine monoplane.

100 PER CENT EMPLOYMENT

The job prospects for aviation graduates are sky high, said Bruce Dwyer, the manager the aviation program at the college.

The program has 85 full-time students this semester, each of whom chooses one of three electives that prepare them for careers as flight instructors, bush pilots who can fly float planes, or as members of a multi-person crew.

Dwyer said every Algonquin aviation graduate in the last two years has found work, and he expects demand for pilots to grow in the next five years.

Delgaty said job prospects for new pilots are good in Canada, in part because many current pilots are reaching retirement age. He also said the demand for pilots in India and China is booming.

The Dave Edward/Tom Jerrard Award has been presented for about 10 years, and sees a total of $5,000 awarded to students at five flying schools in Canada.

Article here...
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Re: Pilot Shortage (not a flight school poster)

Post by planett »

Happy days are here again!!
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