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canwhitewolf
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by canwhitewolf »

If only we had a government that was more canadian instead of following other countries coat tails we could do better

this government is sometimes like an american ( and others) mole operating in our parliament

we dont think for ourselves anymore

yemeni oil is valuable

yemen is valuable

so gotta make the connections
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Conquest Driver
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Conquest Driver »

Dash-Ate, since when flying is a right?
I'm going to suggest since the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was passed.

MOBILITY RIGHTS OF CITIZENS / Right to move and gain livelihood / Limitation / Affirmative action programs.

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right

(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
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Mig29
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Mig29 »

Dash-Ate wrote:When will you realise...the terrorists are our own leaders....only THEY can take away our rights.
How much more of this will it take for you to realise? I wonder.

Most of what we hear on the news is BS. All these fear stories.
Our industry is in for a very tough time...our own leaders are destroying it
You are 100% right my friend, and for those of you who are mocking this person, I have one word for you: BRAINWASHING. But that's exactly how they get away with this s**t! More people are more like zombies today and are running around in fear to what ever their government serves them. Wake up people!
The Old Fogducker wrote:While I feel your pain due to inconvenience, in all sincerity, what do you think should be done?

You are kidding right? This grand illusion is an insult to everyones intelligence. Flights destined to the U.S from Canadian airports are leaving up to 12 hours late if they haven't been cancelled due to all this redundant secondary patting down nonsense in the name of suspected threats, yet all flights leaving Buffalo, Seattle, or any other American airport are not subject to any of this. How is that secure? Do they need to be reminded that the flights of Sept 11, 2001 all departed from U.S. airports? Do they really think a terrorist won't just jump on a bus to Buffalo with all the other passengers who chartered one?

The millions upon millions of dollars being wasted on this makes the whole thing eliligible for entry into the Guiness book of records as the grandest illusion in history.

Sorry, but until we start profiling and taking things seriously like they do at Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, this will remain nothing more than a sharade veiled and fuelled by fear.

This latest attack is simply proof of the illusion. Authorities were even warned prior to this clown getting on an airplane.
Jaques Strappe, you are right on the spot!! I would like to ask CATSA and TSA this same question!! Why is it more safe to fly within U.S. then from outside to U.S.??? And I'm sorry, but this air travel is becoming more like cattle transport. Even these animals are treated better then we are! And someone should be responsible and paying airlines for all the disruption and delays that are costing them in hundreds of millions of dollars because their gov't organization screening agencies have FAILED to protect the air traveling public. I have many more words that I would like to say here, but because we have kids here to, I will keep them for my self :wink:
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Jaques Strappe
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Jaques Strappe »

Racial profiling will not fly in the Western world, however, when I said "profiling" in a previous post, I did not mean just racial. I meant knowing who is traveling. Why is someone buying a ticket with cash and has no luggage?

This individual was known to authorities and was on an FBI "no fly" list yet still got on an airplane. The terrorists of 911 were all known to the authorities, who were even warned of the attempt, yet they still got on airplanes.

This notion of CATSA and TSA guards being our first line of defense is what I find so insulting. They should be the last. As for Finn 47 saying this must have been a well planned and not a knee jerk reaction, I would disagree. This is a total kneejerk reaction created by the very individuals who realized too late, that they allowed a terrorist to board an airplane.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by AuxBatOn »

Conquest Driver wrote:
Dash-Ate, since when flying is a right?
I'm going to suggest since the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was passed.

MOBILITY RIGHTS OF CITIZENS / Right to move and gain livelihood / Limitation / Affirmative action programs.

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right

(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Does it specify by air? Article 6 only specifies that a border station, if you are canadian, you cannot be refused entry. Nothing about flying into your country.

Article 8 talks only about "unreasonable search or seizure".

There is nothing in what you posted that talk about the "right" to fly. It's a privilege that you can get revoked. Sometimes it is unfortunate, but when 1 group screws up, everybody gets the shaft, so to speak.
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boeingboy
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by boeingboy »

The thing that really bugs me about all this is the current (laughable) security system that is in place didn't even fail!

The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.

Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.
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Mach1
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Mach1 »

If terrorists are trying to get everyone to stop flying, does this make terrorists environmentalists?
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AuxBatOn
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by AuxBatOn »

boeingboy wrote:The thing that really bugs me about all this is the current (laughable) security system that is in place didn't even fail!

The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.

Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.

Actually, when I travelled from Thailand to Canada a few weeks ago, I stopped in Narita on the way. We had to go through security immediately after deplaning and then you could get in the International terminal. I assume it's the same way anywhere else for flights to North America.
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Finn47
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Finn47 »

Several articles have said the Nigerian went through a security check in Amsterdam, but it may not have been confirmed yet
The failed bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, went through security checks at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport when he transferred onto the Northwest Airlines flight. Dutch Anti-Terrorism Co-ordinator Erik Akerboom has admitted the airport’s security checks are not completely watertight. It is not clear whether all transfer passengers are currently checked by sniffer dogs.
http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/dutch-r ... 10614.html
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chipmunk
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by chipmunk »

boeingboy wrote:
The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.

Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.
Actually at Schipol Airport in Amsterdam most, if not all, gates have security screening at the entrance to the gate itself (which is more like a secure room that they open an hour prior to boarding or something like that) so it is highly likely that he went through screening again there.

I've also been through security at a couple airports in Nigeria as recent as 2006, and it was pretty much a joke.
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Youngback
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Youngback »

You are searched twice in Schipol airport. Once when entering the main terminal and again immediately before you board your aircraft. Anyone coming from another flight will be searched at the gate before boarding. Most major international airports search twice. Japan, Qatar, UAE, UK, Thailand, Malaysia, and most places in Africa, I've been searched twice. The quality of those searches could be debatable but they were done twice. In some cases within 20 feet of each other. Also, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was only on a intelligence watch list, not an actual no-fly list.
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flyinthebug
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by flyinthebug »

Youngback wrote:You are searched twice in Schipol airport. Once when entering the main terminal and again immediately before you board your aircraft. Anyone coming from another flight will be searched at the gate before boarding. Most major international airports search twice. Japan, Qatar, UAE, UK, Thailand, Malaysia, and most places in Africa, I've been searched twice. The quality of those searches could be debatable but they were done twice. In some cases within 20 feet of each other. Also, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was only on a intelligence watch list, not an actual no-fly list.
Thats correct. According to CTV news there are 500,000 people on the "watch list" as opposed to the only 4000 on the "no fly" list.

Also, CTV reported that the powder substance weighed approx 80 grams..just over 2.5 ozs. It would have been impossible to detect without a cavity search. There has got to be a technology that will support finding hidden explosive material on a person.. while still not infringing on their dignity & right to privacy.

I am grateful to not have to travel by commercial aviation anytime soon. These knee-jerk reactions (and they ARE knee-jerk reactions and not thought out whatsoever) are a joke. The skys are no safer today then they were 2 weeks ago. These searches are just another indignity that the travelling public has to endure.


Fly safe all.
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MUSKEG
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by MUSKEG »

I agree they are a pain in the ass, however if one of your family was on an aircraft that was blown up in flight because someone else thought security was a pain in the ass how loud would you be screaming then.
..................................I thought so. I realize it's not perfect but it is hard to argue with the success thats happening. Whether the other side is trying real hard is anybodies guess.
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Jaques Strappe
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Jaques Strappe »

MUSKEG wrote:I agree they are a pain in the ass, however if one of your family was on an aircraft that was blown up in flight because someone else thought security was a pain in the ass how loud would you be screaming then.
..................................I thought so. I realize it's not perfect but it is hard to argue with the success thats happening. Whether the other side is trying real hard is anybodies guess.

I think about this all the time and what upsets me is that our government seems to rely on passenger screening when in reality, a suicide bomber could have explosives hidden in their stomachs on a timer. How is a CATSA or TSA person going to detect that?

What should be the most alarming detail to the flying public right now is that these attackers were all known to various governments as hostile terrorists and yet were still allowed to fly on board commercial airliners?

The problem is not at the airports. Yet it would seem that is exactly what they want you to believe.
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Meatservo
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Meatservo »

Handcuffing people to their seats? Not a bad idea.

When I flew a lot of passengers, I used to think it would be ideal from my point of view to chloroform the passengers and stack them under a cargo net for the duration of the flight.

The last time I flew on Jazz, i wished someone would chloroform me and put me under a cargo net for the duration of the flight.
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Jaques Strappe
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Jaques Strappe »

President Obama is on CNN right now giving a speech in response to this latest attack and has somehow turned the subject to Iran.

Am I the only one who has that Deja Vu feeling?

Perhaps if the U.S stopped shitting all over the planet, they wouldn't have so many enemies.
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MUSKEG
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by MUSKEG »

Sad to say but these terrorists are enemies of anyone who doesn't think like them. I guess I'm an enemy then. Really don't know why. It has little to do with the USA. Just a real easy scapgoat.
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Finn47
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Finn47 »

Some islamists (?) are claiming responsibility for the incident, though it´s rather easy to do so afterwards:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/28/air ... index.html
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GForce
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by GForce »

It is important that everyone realizes that it is not a backpack full of explosives that is being missed at security checks. I am not going to post the video myself because too many on here would blame me for showing how to make the same type of bomb that this particular terrorist most likely used. Google it yourself and see that we are dealing with something that is going to cause a lot of problems in this world. Google this: binary explosives video and see for yourself.

G
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ahramin
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by ahramin »

MUSKEG wrote:I agree they are a pain in the ass, however if one of your family was on an aircraft that was blown up in flight because someone else thought security was a pain in the ass how loud would you be screaming then.
..................................I thought so. I realize it's not perfect but it is hard to argue with the success thats happening. Whether the other side is trying real hard is anybodies guess.
I wouldn't be screaming at all. I have flown on airlines with no security and given the choice, I would do so every time. Not everyone is willing to hand over control of their life for the illusion of security. Please don't assume that everyone is as terrified of the world as you are.

Think about how much money is being spent. Think of the actual benefit. Don't you think that money could benefit Canada or the world far more by being spent on something else?
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