I have another question.

[. ._]

Brilliant answer.

[Koizie1]

Think of it as a loyalty incentive.

Also, as you gain more experience, other companies will be more interested in hiring you. If your company wants you to stay then they have to up your pay.

[MrWings]

Grass is always greener. Paying more to senior guys makes them think twice about finding out if that is true.

[Lost in Saigon]

At a non-union company, they pay a little more to the senior pilots to keep them from leaving. Junior pilots get paid a little less to recoup some of the training costs, and because they don't have enough experience to go anywhere else.

At a union company, only the union decides how much is paid to senior and junior pilots. The company doesn't care one bit who gets paid what as long as the total payroll meets their expectations. The senior guys run the union, and the union always decides to pay the senior guys 3-4 times more than the junior guys. The reason for this is exactly the same reason why a dog licks his balls....


BECAUSE HE CAN!

[Cat Driver]

I was thinking more along the line of the pay scale and annual raises at a company like CMA rather than Air Canada or West Jet.

Anyone care to give their thoughts on the starting pay and how long it takes to earn a decent living at that level of aviation?

I was especially struck by the low per diems.

[Mustard]

Anyone who has had a job before knows the longer you work there the more you make.

[niss]

Thanks guys.

Here is my gift to you.

http://www.mechanicsupport.com/TellMeMore1.html

I absolutely love this software! The knowlegebase is awesome.

[Meatservo]

Hey Cat, what about companies other than the big airlines, where aeroplanes do the more exotic work? Surely you're going to expect to have to pay a 15 000 hour guy more than the 3000 hour guy who just started flying the Otter? You're going to be counting on him to be a role model for the less experienced pilots; you may be counting on him to lead the way when it comes to some of the trickier off-strip jobs, he probably has some sort of training aspect to his job as well. Your question assumes the point of view of the newer pilot: "I'm doing the same job as Grandpa, why aren't I getting paid the same as Grandpa?" Looking at it from Grandpa's point of view, "I've been doing this for thirty years, how come I haven't gotten a raise?"

I have always objected to the mentality that the pilot is worth a fixed percentage of the aircraft's variable income. There comes a point in any line of work where you can expect to be paid not only for the raw work that you accomplish, but also the knowledge that you bring to the organisation. If you stomp around claiming to have 10 000 hours, you'd better fly like you have 10 000 hours, too, and set a good example for those who have less experience. Of course I am also willing to entertain the notion that being paid more means you may be expected to do more, such as some training responsibilities. Also, how long would you keep a job and how much effort would you put into excelling at it if you knew there was no possibility of a raise?

I'm not really a fan of Ayn Rand, but I agree somewhat with "Each according to his ability".

[Cat Driver]

Meatservo, will you quit being so rational?

You are ruining my thread by using logic.

[planett]

Maybe you're not paid for what you do, I quote from a forgotten source "you're paid for what you can do". One would think your ability to deal with emergencies and irrops will be better with experience, if you're engaged in your job. Think of it as paying more for better insurance....that you may never need.

Edit: The logic is short circuited when joining another company with all of that experience that got you hired in the first place, and being paid the least again.

[x-wind]

I thought this was a rather astute question that would cause some useful reflection. However, it isn't an idea I have thought about often or tried to defend in the past.

In response to a few of the responders: Those that have different titles have different roles, of course; a captain should not be paid the same as a first officer because his duties are different. So using the impactful example of the first year first officer to the veteran captain is bogus, especially if its the same route/schedule and you are effectively flying the bug.

If one is highly experienced and desires mentoring duties then you should be acknowledged formally, perhaps as a training captain, therefore, deserving higher pay because of said persons DUTIES. If you are a nine thousand hour pilot flying the line, the same as the three thousand hour soul thou should be paid the same, because, you assume the exact same responsibility.

This isn't a Communist idea, if your after a larger wage or more experience to utilize in realizing your aspirations then you should aspire to more responsibility and be recognized for it DIRECTLY.

STP perhaps you shouldn't be given that extra dollar yet, but you may be next in line to the two dollars flyforpie deserves because you seem to posses the right attributes, comparatively speaking.

Planett stated his case well, I disagree for the above reasons. However, I will add that it maybe desirable for a highly experienced pilot to keep or take a particular job because it is less demanding for that individual personally.

"Each according to his ability" would seem a long understood universal notion .... or so I hope.

[Cat Driver]

I thought this was a rather astute question that would cause some useful reflection.

That was my reason for posting the question.

I was wondering why there is such a wide gap in pay between pilots who hold the same license.

[Meatservo]

If you are a nine thousand hour pilot flying the line, the same as the three thousand hour soul thou should be paid the same, because, you assume the exact same responsibility.

This isn't a Communist idea, if your after a larger wage or more experience to utilize in realizing your aspirations then you should aspire to more responsibility and be recognized for it DIRECTLY.

X Wind, good thoughts but I have to disagree somewhat. Maybe the two pilots in your example should be paid in the same RANGE, but I would like to believe that experience is worth something to an employer. I mean if you want to pay just based on quantity of work performed, how would you quantify the contribution to the company of an AME, or an office guy? What would you base raises on? You can't give everyone who deserves a raise a promotion to a management position. The 9000 hour pilot, all other things being equal, is at less risk of causing damage to the aircraft, knows more, and can perform better than the 3000 hour pilot. Of course, I'm assuming equal aptitude. Of course there are 3000 hour pilots out there who are better, smarter, and safer than other 9000 hour pilots, but one way to GET better, wiser, and safer than you already are is experience. People need to be paid for their experience, otherwise all your aeroplanes are going to be crewed by people with bare-minimum qualifications who will be gone the second they qualify for something that pays better.(Which, come to think of it, is a safety issue we're already discussing hotly in another thread.) Your planes will be perpetually covered with the dented floats, scratched wingtips and mangled dock-knockers that low-time pilots specialize in. I don't know what level of the industry you currently work in, but try to look at the situation from the point of view of an older, higher time pilot who has been everywhere and done everything, and then a young new guy shows up and right away gets the same pay as you? How depressing. A company can only have so many training pilots at one time, you've got to create some incentive for your experienced guys to stick around. Flying isn't a reward that you get for doing work, it IS work, and generally the more experienced you are, the more the company makes, and the less they lose, from your abilities and experience. Why shouldn't you get paid more as a consequence?

[flyinthebug]

Fair assessment Meatservo.

Cat, in answer to your direct question about CMA.. I dont have any current knowledge of their payscales...BUT I do know they used to pay 18-24K (mid to late 90s) for the right seat of a 1900D and around 65K for left. Grossly underpaid for that level of responsibility.

My buddy is floggin around out east in a 100 and makes 90-100K. Home every night and enjoys a life away from work too! Go figure.

Maybe someone has some current info on CMAs pay scale.. or other similiar ops?

[Meatservo]

Is your buddy flogging that 100 for Thunder Air? I remember seeing their pay scale one time and being pleasantly surprised at what you could make as a captain if you stuck around for a few years.

[flyinthebug]

Is your buddy flogging that 100 for Thunder Air? I remember seeing their pay scale one time and being pleasantly surprised at what you could make as a captain if you stuck around for a few years.

Further east... but I worked for Air Thunder in the 90s and their pay was very fair! Even the F/0`s were paid decently there.

[AEROBAT]

I just knew this subject would be entertaining..

...keep giving your own personal thoughts on this because when it finally runs out of steam you girls and guys and transgendered members of this industry can read what your colleagues think about their worth.

.................................. By the way the Lyc. 0-235 that I am changing over from the Mong to the Cub does not have a lifting bracket on the top of the case....

.....anyone know which bolts I need to remove from the top of the case to put a hoisting bracket on it and get the C of G correct for hoisting the thing??

with all the accessories on it.

Going out to the strip tomorrow, I will have a look see and get back to you. Is it an O-235 C1B?