Edmonton City Centre Airport

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yodan
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by yodan »

Slowstream,

Good points. I will only disagree with your definition of "democracy" with respect to the 1995 plebiscite where the wording totally confused all voters: No meant Yes and Yes meant No. Scott Clements and his cronies at ERAA (supported by City Council) have done irreperable gievest harm to GA in Edmonton let alone CYXD. (He was also instrumental in removing the Air Force from Namao).

Edmontonians have been consistently lied to for a long time...and not only about CYXD!!

Cheers
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Prairie Chicken
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Prairie Chicken »

yodan, you've got that right! Why is Canada, and Edmonton in particular, so determined to close our airports? The rest of the world is trying to build &/or expand their airports. I'm about ready to rant on, but it's all been said before. I'll save my breath. This crowd knows the score; it's the people of Edmonton that are being mislead. Closure of 16/34 is the beginning of the end. Another tragedy.
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slowstream
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by slowstream »

yodan wrote:Slowstream,

Good points. I will only disagree with your definition of "democracy" with respect to the 1995 plebiscite where the wording totally confused all voters: No meant Yes and Yes meant No. Scott Clements and his cronies at ERAA (supported by City Council) have done irreperable gievest harm to GA in Edmonton let alone CYXD. (He was also instrumental in removing the Air Force from Namao).

Edmontonians have been consistently lied to for a long time...and not only about CYXD!!

Cheers
yodan,

You'll get no arguments from me there, this has been a very poor example of Democracy, the people of Edmonton have been lied to for over twenty years about this issue!! I personally blame Scott Clements and Jan Rimer.

I think most of the people who are not affected by this issue are sick and tired of it and just want it to go away once and for all, the sad part is that in about 5 to 10 years the city will regret this decision and they're will be no going back.
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slowstream
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by slowstream »

A buddy sent this to me this morning..........here it is,

100165 CYXD EDMONTON CITY CENTRE(BLATCHFORD FIELD)
CYXD RWY 16/34 CLSD
1008030300 TIL 1009232359
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swordfish
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by swordfish »

I was the last to land on it before it was closed...AND it was an ILS approach. Kinda nostalgic, but I guess like all our education & professional development over the years, we have to adapt to the changing environment and realities of the game.

If it truly is irreversible, then lets make plans and move on! No use crying over spilled milk.
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Krashman »

I was the last to land on it before it was closed...AND it was an ILS approach. Kinda nostalgic, but I guess like all our education & professional development over the years
You may have been the last to land on it but at 0322 I shot the ILS 34 circling for 30... both Red Deer radio and Edmonton terminal said that would be it because shortly there after the maint crews were out there to start peeling off the paint....

Sad day if you ask me.
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longjon
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by longjon »

my thoughts are, you are the city closest to the second largest oil deposit on earth, most large corps have flight depts, you are trying to attract business to out do a more succesfull city 300 K to the south and you close the one thing you could sell to these large corporations who bring jobs etc,
just un u cking believable
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aviator2010
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

my thoughts are, you are the city closest to the second largest oil deposit on earth, most large corps have flight depts, you are trying to attract business to out do a more succesfull city 300 K to the south and you close the one thing you could sell to these large corporations who bring jobs etc,
just un u cking believable
battel lost long ago. SHAW's advice get one airport.

mass transit puts you downtown in 15 min, medevacs put the critical in the hospital via stars and northeren residents get another option other than calgary to proceed to their final destination.
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

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yodan
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by yodan »

[quote]battel lost long ago. SHAW's advice get one airport.

mass transit puts you downtown in 15 min, medevacs put the critical in the hospital via stars and northeren residents get another option other than calgary to proceed to their final destination.[quote] :lol:

Aviator 2010,

Fisrt of all you just can't be a real aviator, you must have borrowed that title. Over and above the fact that you still can't spell, you logic makes no sense. This discussion is out of your league. :rolleyes:

Let's see how a STARS helo can fly in icing conditions! and where is our mass transit? By the time all the road construction is completed in Edmonton, we will still be 19 years behind the current traffic requirements. So Mass transit is for another day waaaaaaaaay down the road and the way city council is going, Edmontonians will probably have to vot on that as well!
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aviator2010
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Let's see how a STARS helo can fly in icing conditions!
comming out of a wedding in nelson a hiway was closed near golden BC due to stars landing on the hiway. there is some give and take but I believe they were the first civilian operator certified for NVG in north america made simpler due to the fact that the majority of pilots are former military medevac pilots.

mass transit puts you downtown in 15 min,
all part of the bigger plan. Do you think they're (going to south edmonton common for IKEA)

what every one forgets when they discuss the 15 min difference between hospital transport is patients that fly on secondary medivacs have to be cleared as stable to transport. I've flowen to a reserve where a woman has been 8 inches dialated and had my medic refuse the medivac (we stayed so the medic could help with the birth) medevacs are not what Joe public thinks they are. A.K.A. 5 min difference will save a life.
Fisrt of all you just can't be a real aviator, you must have borrowed that title. Over and above the fact that you still can't spell, you logic makes no sense. This discussion is out of your league.
telling people they can't spell while skrewing it up your self = FAIL

As for what Kind of pilot I am, I'd be pleased to meet you, runway 29 you name the time.
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swordfish
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by swordfish »

Krashman wrote:
I was the last to land on it before it was closed...AND it was an ILS approach. Kinda nostalgic, but I guess like all our education & professional development over the years
You may have been the last to land on it but at 0322 I shot the ILS 34 circling for 30... both Red Deer radio and Edmonton terminal said that would be it because shortly there after the maint crews were out there to start peeling off the paint....

Sad day if you ask me.
The ILS was notammed off at 0900Z. You made an illegal "ILS approach" with a facility that was technically unavailable.
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yodan
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by yodan »

former military medevac pilots.
There is no such thing as a military medevac pilot. Search and Rescue perhaps. You seem to spew from the mouth (or the pen) and you facts are incorrect or unverrified.
Do you think they're (going to south edmonton common for IKEA)
You know, I totally missed that. That makes a lot of sense. Let's see...from the current most southern LRT station to IKEA that will take at least 10 years to build. Then given the distance and going through another County...let's say 20 years. That's awesome! For the moment I can just grab an Ikea shopping cart and make my way down the QR II to CYEG signing "on the road again" :smt040
telling people they can't spell while skrewing it up your self = FAIL
Did not get the humour in my mocking you???? :lol:
As for what Kind of pilot I am, I'd be pleased to meet you, runway 29 you name the time.
I am there most Tuesday evenings
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Krashman
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Krashman »

The ILS was notammed off at 0900Z. You made an illegal "ILS approach" with a facility that was technically unavailable.


We asked terminal on the way in... they didn't have any problems with it but they did make it clear it was circling only. I spoke with the edmonton airports guy that drives around in the little pick up truck the night before so I knew the crews weren't going to be showing up till 0400.
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Commander Rockwell
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Commander Rockwell »

What every one forgets when they discuss the 15 min difference between hospital transport is patients that fly on secondary medivacs have to be cleared as stable to transport. I've flowen to a reserve where a woman has been 8 inches dialated and had my medic refuse the medivac (we stayed so the medic could help with the birth) medevacs are not what Joe public thinks they are. A.K.A. 5 min difference will save a life.


Why does anyone think that STARS or any other secondary medevac (whatever that is) will be available to transfer the critical patients from YEG to a hospital ? Who will get such a service up and running ? STARS has neither the resources nor the mandate to do so. It has one helicopter on alert in Edmonton, and it's quite busy.
Further, as one who drives between YEG and the north side of Edmonton daily, and with relative efficiency, I cannot and will not believe that anybody, even with a fleet of police escorts and screaming sirens can do the drive from YEG to a critical care unit at the UofA or the Alex in 15 minutes. It is simply impossible, unless you save all your Medevac transfers for say... Oh, I don't know....THREE AY-EM ??

City Council trumps the big set of public hearings. The outcome would have been far, far different if those who submitted their presentations and answered questions had been required to do so under oath. REmember that movie: Sex, Lies and Video Tape. THose hearings were simply a rejuvenation of the theme: Lots of floks were, and are getting screwed, lots of lies and half truths were told, and there will be media hot-on-hand when the first person is lost on that magical 15 minute ride from YEG to the Alex, or to the UofA !

Lastly, I'll ask this question: Where is the new infrastructure at YEG to faciliate and build several hangars to take in all Mandel's "Fat-Cats" with private jets ? You know: Transport Canada's fleet, Government of Alberta's fleet, RCMP fleet, Edmonton City Police fleet, DND's Challengers. If you go out to YEG, as I do ever day, you won't see it being built, cause it ain't being built. Wonder who will be out on the street (literally)first ?
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aviator2010
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Why does anyone think that STARS or any other secondary medevac (whatever that is) will be available to transfer the critical patients from YEG to a hospital ?
critical patients get flowen on stars directly to the hospital. no fixed wing flights involved.

The 15 minute difference is just that a 15 minute difference. 10 minutes for a transfer from city center to U of A will translate too a 25 minute transfere from the international. a little bit longer for the royal alex but with the 2 Billion dollar expantion at the U of A (doubling the capacity of the hospital) a lot less of the time critical will be going to the alex anyway.
Lastly, I'll ask this question: Where is the new infrastructure at YEG to faciliate and build several hangars to take in all Mandel's "Fat-Cats" with private jets ? You know: Transport Canada's fleet, Government of Alberta's fleet, RCMP fleet, Edmonton City Police fleet, DND's Challengers. If you go out to YEG, as I do ever day, you won't see it being built, cause it ain't being built. Wonder who will be out on the street (literally)first ?
that is what an entropenure calls opprotunity, with the international surronded by farmland an the writing on the wall for the city center. it's more about who acts last might be temperarly with out a chair when the music stops but there is deffinitly room to grow at the international which is what is causing the death of the city center (grow or die) they lack room to grow.
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Krashman
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Krashman »

critical patients get flowen on stars directly to the hospital. no fixed wing flights involved.

The 15 minute difference is just that a 15 minute difference. 10 minutes for a transfer from city center to U of A will translate too a 25 minute transfere from the international. a little bit longer for the royal alex but with the 2 Billion dollar expantion at the U of A (doubling the capacity of the hospital) a lot less of the time critical will be going to the alex anyway.
Okay you must not work in the medevac business and certainly not in Alberta!

Do you have any idea how long it actually takes to transfer care from a hospital to a medic.... then medic to a stars team? Just the red tape and briefings alone between crews especially when there are multiple meds running on your 'critical' patient far out weighs the advantage of transfering care. Now think about the cost of not only the fixed wing aircraft and crew but add in the high cost of a stars helicopter and crew for EVERY medevac.... no this is not a viable or cost effective option.
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Tube Driver
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Tube Driver »

Okay, it has been a while but lets look at the usefulness of this airport for small business jets. If you take for example a Cessna SII, V or the like and look at the numbers required to operate this type of aircraft at near gross weight with a wet runway or in snow or slush, i believe you will find that you cannot do it. I could go get an exact number, but I will let those of you who are keen look into it. If I am correct, as i believe I am, this gratly reduces the effectiveness of this airport to the point that it is of no value to business aviation. I would appreciate someone digging into this.
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aviator2010
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Do you have any idea how long it actually takes to transfer care from a hospital to a medic.... then medic to a stars team?
critical patients get flowen on stars directly to the hospital. no fixed wing flights involved.
any patient that fly's fixed wing medivac in alberta has to be deemed stable enough to transport. If he is stable enough to transport than he's stable enough to transport. If he's not stable than the extra 15 minutes doesn't matter cause he wouldn't be transported until he is. destination CYEG or CYXD. for paitents that need transport in an unstable condition STARS is available.
Do you have any idea how long it actually takes to transfer care from a hospital to a medic
You make my point for me Thank you. 15 minutes added on is not going to kill one of these paitients.

I digress arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics even if one of us wins were still retards :lol:
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

Commander Rockwell
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Commander Rockwell »

STARS by definition is not a taxi service, despite any suggestion to the contrary. One cannot presume that STARS would be available at YEG to take a patient off a KingAir or any other air ambulance, to provide helicopter transport for the patient to a hospital. The STARS mission currently precludes such availability. Further, to make such availability would require a fleet of at least three machines, and likely more - one to meet the needs of the current mission - critical-injury/life threatening situations where airlift from a remote or time sensitive location that is within unrefuelled flying range, and the others as air-taxiis. A NGO or a government department would likely decline to attempt to fund such an unpredicatable mission.

On another tack: It's interesting how the city is calling for proposals for redevelopment, while at the same time extending the Indy contract. Perhaps we will have a high density housing project with an Indy race track embedded ! Then, the race car drivers will complain about the noise from the housing projects, and a plebiscite will have to be held, proposing to close the housing in favour of the race !! The 50,000 residents will have to fight to explain to the rest of the city the fact that their housing project makes less noise than the race cars !! :smt040 :smt040

And yet another: The obstacle-free approaches of 16 and 34 have been traded for the obstacle laden, hospital over-flying RWY 12-30. Brilliant ! Yet another example of the scheming of these fine, fine folks. Pretty soon the doctors at the Alex will be complaining about aircraft rattling the surgical instrument trays ! And RWY 12-30 will have to go sooner than later !

Such creativity all-round :lol: :lol: :lol: !!
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by looproll »

any patient that fly's fixed wing medivac in alberta has to be deemed stable enough to transport. If he is stable enough to transport than he's stable enough to transport. If he's not stable than the extra 15 minutes doesn't matter cause he wouldn't be transported until he is. destination CYEG or CYXD. for paitents that need transport in an unstable condition STARS is available.
I've flown a lot of so-called "stable" patients that begin to circle the drain after departure. Fifteen minutes does matter sometimes. And what's this about STARS being available for unstable patients? So, I arrive with a patient that needs to get to the hospital ASAP (become unstable during transport) and it's STARS to the rescue? I think not.
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by looproll »

Tube Driver wrote:Okay, it has been a while but lets look at the usefulness of this airport for small business jets. If you take for example a Cessna SII, V or the like and look at the numbers required to operate this type of aircraft at near gross weight with a wet runway or in snow or slush, i believe you will find that you cannot do it.
What are you talking about? Operators like Syncrude fly there pretty much every day, year round, and have been doing so for years. Every single day you can find small business jets at CYXD.
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aviator2010
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

I digress arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics even if one of us wins were still retards
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by ditar »

aviator2010 wrote:I digress arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics even if one of us wins were still retards
The fact that you've made this statement twice now indicates that you think you're being funny. On the contrary it is ignorant and insulting.
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aviator2010
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

The fact that you've made this statement twice now indicates that you think you're being funny. On the contrary it is ignorant and insulting.
your right I appolagize to those I've offended
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

AEROBAT
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Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by AEROBAT »

Tube Driver wrote:Okay, it has been a while but lets look at the usefulness of this airport for small business jets. If you take for example a Cessna SII, V or the like and look at the numbers required to operate this type of aircraft at near gross weight with a wet runway or in snow or slush, i believe you will find that you cannot do it. I could go get an exact number, but I will let those of you who are keen look into it. If I am correct, as i believe I am, this gratly reduces the effectiveness of this airport to the point that it is of no value to business aviation. I would appreciate someone digging into this.
I have flown out of the Muni in 737's. North American used to have an early model Lear, 35 I think, that flew out of there no problem. I think Brooker Wheaton was running Citations as well.
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