Edmonton City Centre Airport

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Commander Rockwell
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:16 am

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Commander Rockwell »

Why not look into it yourself - you were "keen enough" to post poor information. Why not take a learning moment and fix your post to reflect some accuaracy. Then spread it around so others can speak to the future of the Muni with knowledge instead of with ignorance and conjecture. You owe it to yourself if you want to be a credible poster.

FYI: the Muni is resident to some medium size jets - a Challenger 604 and a Citation X, beyond the Westwinds, Citations, Hawkers, BE100/200/350 and others that are living there. It is not uncommon to see G-Vs and occasionally a BBJ. There are no issues with balanced field length and any thought of weight restricting the small and medium size jets at YXD. This speaks to the great utility of the airport.
City Council cannot see beyond the tips of their collective nose, the money that travels into the Muni on these aircraft. Multi-million deals can be very time sensitive in terms of negotiation and funds delivery. I have flown several trips into/out of where the sole purpose was to deliver a cheque by a certain time/date. Hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. The development of Edmonton and the surrounding area, and the $$$$ to support it is most certainly not all locally based ! If it was, Edmonton would still be the size of Beaumont or Strathmore, or even (gulp !!) Winnipeg :lol: :lol: .
---------- ADS -----------
  

Tube Driver
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:31 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Tube Driver »

I am not saying anything but here are the computer generated numbers for the SII on a wet runway in order to comply with part 135.

Quick numbers on a C550SII

Takeoff

N1 = 96.4 /94.2
V1 = 95
Vr = 95
V2 = 101
Venr = 155
Dist = 9,825
Ret Vapp = 110
Ret Vref = 105
Ret Dist = 2,820 Flaps:20d
MTOW:15,100
Alt: 2,000
Wt: 14,500
Temp: 25 /78
RW:Water < 0.1,Level
Anti-Ice: OFF

Landing
Vapp = 109 Max Wt:14,400
Vref = 104 Alt: 2,000
Wt: 14,000
G/A N1 = 96.4 Temp: 25/78

Land Dist = 6,072
RW:Water < 0.1,Level
135 Min RW = 10,140
Anti-Ice: OFF
---------- ADS -----------
  

nite_owl
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:35 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by nite_owl »

Hey there, Tube Driver go burn off a little fuel. you're tankering too much gas. Been into/ out of the Muni in Boeings at various weights. You may not be at max but it doesn't mean you can't operate safely at lighter weights.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Tube Driver
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:31 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Tube Driver »

That is not the point. I said that at times even a small jet under certain weather conditions cannot use the strip. Now lets say you want to depart YXD and head south to a warmer climate, when you take full fuel and your pax, it is not feasable. The wet runway condition is the problem. Slush is worse. I think the 604 guys are doing it 604.
---------- ADS -----------
  

golden hawk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 680
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:43 am

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by golden hawk »

---------- ADS -----------
  

aviator2010
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story ... costs.html


Airport officials said the average operating cost is $2.5 million a year, offset by $2.5 million a year in revenue, including from leases. But loan repayments and capital upgrades bring the net loss to $1.3 million a year.

Shutting down the City Centre, on the other hand, could bring in a bonanza from selling or leasing the lands — officials estimate anywhere from $91 million to $486 million in net revenue.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

User avatar
5x5
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:30 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by 5x5 »

CBC Article wrote:The cost factor, however, has largely been missing from discussions.
This happens to be particularly true of the Medevac relocation. The costs will be extremely high and have been overlooked or purposely put aside as in the report prepared for council in 2009.

The costs yet to be tallied are:
- hangar and ramp construction of the wonderful NEW air ambulance facility at EIA.(multiple, if not tens of millions)

- direct road access to from this location as current roads at EIA are not suitable for rapid emergency access (multiple millions)

- interchange with QE2 (hundreds of millions based on cost of 23rd St/Gateway Blvd interchane just built in Edmonton)

- automated traffic light system to provide unimpeded access of ground ambulances into the city hospitals. This suggestion is right out of the City's report (tens of millions)

- helicopter transfers, weather permitting, from EIA (at least 5 times more expensive per transfer than ground based from CCA)

Absolutely right, let's talk costs but let's talk about ALL the costs.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Being stupid around airplanes is a capital offence and nature is a hanging judge!

“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain

Conquest Driver
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:57 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Conquest Driver »

What about the ultimate potential cost, a human life??

All you need is a major accident on #2 northbound between YEG and the hospitals. Ambulance can't get through, no easy alternative route.

I've hauled transplant organs into YXD a couple of times. Those are very time critical. We pass the cooler to the Ambulance Supervisor then watch the lights and listen to the siren as he bolts. I can see taking them into YEG, then having them turn into bio hazardous waste because of a delay getting them from YEG to the transplant facility.
---------- ADS -----------
  

gianthammer
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:10 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by gianthammer »

Airport officials said the average operating cost is $2.5 million a year, offset by $2.5 million a year in revenue, including from leases. But loan repayments and capital upgrades bring the net loss to $1.3 million a year.
Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Krashman
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:32 am
Location: Pole vaulting

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Krashman »

One and the same it seems...
---------- ADS -----------
  
Having trouble reaching ATC? Squak 7500

aviator2010
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around
nothing larger than a 737/A320 could fly out of there which is the whole point of moving the airport
---------- ADS -----------
  
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

User avatar
Main Gear
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:48 am
Location: Earth

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Main Gear »

aviator2010 wrote:
Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around
nothing larger than a 737/A320 could fly out of there which is the whole point of moving the airport
Most of the traffic is domestic and transborder, you don't need to get wide bodies in there.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Never point your aircraft to some place your brain hasn't already been 5 minutes earlier.

aviator2010
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Most of the traffic is domestic and transborder, you don't need to get wide bodies in there.
theirs the attitude, hey maybe we could get rid of Aircanada's 1 transatlantic flight (Heathrow). lets be sure to keep Transat out of edmonton too, any other airlines you'd like to keep out of edmonton to help with growth?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

User avatar
Main Gear
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:48 am
Location: Earth

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Main Gear »

Alberta doesn't have the population to support two major airports. Calgary is the clear winner. International travel should connect through YYC.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Never point your aircraft to some place your brain hasn't already been 5 minutes earlier.

tailgunner
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 4:03 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by tailgunner »

"International travel should connect through Calgary".
Wow, what nonsense. These are some of the direct flights that Edmonton would lose if we followed your logic. London Heathrow, Cancun, Phoenix, Chicago, Houston, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, and other holiday charter flights..
I realize that yow,yul,and yyz are domestic, but they too become un reachable, and unprofitable with a 5700 foot runway. You can not uplift enough gas, cargo, and revenue passengers and go anywhere... So by your logic, Edmontonians would also need to connect through Calgary for almost 75% of their destinations.....that's brutal...Oh well, Airco would be around, Chateau Loius, and the Kingsway Business Association..
---------- ADS -----------
  

Indanao
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:25 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Indanao »

aviator2010 wrote:
Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around
nothing larger than a 737/A320 could fly out of there which is the whole point of moving the airport
How big do you want em? " Gateway to the North " doesn't include many International Flights. ( That is why they have the, " International Airport".) A city center commuter airport will serve Edmonton well into the future. Once it's gone, It's gone for good. Seems 2010/highflyer don't know or learn from the history of that airport.
---------- ADS -----------
  

tailgunner
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 4:03 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by tailgunner »

Indanao,
How well did that concept work in Montreal?
Edmonton IS not Montreal, but the concept of trying to sustain 2 independant, yet, competeing airports with a population base of 1-1.2 million seems a bit much.I beleive it is one or the other. YXD has reached its growth potential re: runway length, expansion etc, while Yeg has ample room to expand and grow as needed.
The cost of infrastructure for roadways etc, is also to be borne by the province and not the taxpayers of the city. Highways, interchanges and such are provincial jurisdiction and thus not directly related to the cost of closing YXD.
---------- ADS -----------
  

aviator2010
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

How big do you want em? " Gateway to the North " doesn't include many International Flights.
canadian North, First Air, westjet, air canada all operate out of the international already for their northern flights. So we close an airport that doesn't offer northern service..............and that's going to interupt northern service? I'm going to need an explination
---------- ADS -----------
  
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

User avatar
Main Gear
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:48 am
Location: Earth

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Main Gear »

I don't understand why they kicked Quikair out of there for one, and not market the airport to attract more corporations, with air access available on their doorstep. It is quite the advantage over other cities. Getting from YEG to DT is a joke. What a mess of roads.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Never point your aircraft to some place your brain hasn't already been 5 minutes earlier.

RatherBeFlying
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:27 am
Location: Toronto

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by RatherBeFlying »

Leduc Intl's principal competitor is Calgary. Mind you, it's an extra 250 km. drive each way; so, you need a considerably better airfare or more convenient schedule to make up for that five hours -- or people you like to visit in Calgary.

Interestingly, so many Edmontonians find it's worth the drive when parking costs are included that YEG ran an advertising campaign to use them instead.

Travelocity shows a bunch of roundtrip fares around $200 for YXD-YYC which is not that much more than the cab ride there and back.

But people here are saying YXD scheduled service has been cancelled???

So if Travelocity is correct, YEG needs to kill YXD to get the traffic that's connecting through YYC.
---------- ADS -----------
  

aviator2010
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Travelocity shows a bunch of roundtrip fares around $200 for YXD-YYC which is not that much more than the cab ride there and back.
I think you mean YEG-YYC, no airline can offer YXD-YYC
---------- ADS -----------
  
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

RatherBeFlying
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:27 am
Location: Toronto

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by RatherBeFlying »

The initial inquiry on Travelocity for YXD-YYC comes up with all sorts of flights on offer -- but when you select a carrier and dates, you end up with YEG-YYC. Can't always believe everything you see on the web.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Indanao
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:25 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by Indanao »

aviator2010 wrote:
How big do you want em? " Gateway to the North " doesn't include many International Flights.
Canadian North, First Air, westjet, air Canada all operate out of the international already for their northern flights. So we close an airport that doesn't offer northern service..............and that's going to interrupt northern service? I'm going to need an explanation
Yeah, it's like Maribel...so far out in the jungle you need a guide. Downtown, for people of the North, forget the $75 Taxi. Hospital for MedEvacs is underestimated. City Center to City Center will be the future anyway. Once it's gone it's gone. Pay now or pay later for your short short sighted behavior. Promote aviation, don't try to kill it.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
cyeg66
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: of my mind is in gutter.

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by cyeg66 »

Indanao wrote: Yeah, it's like Maribel...so far out in the jungle you need a guide. Downtown, for people of the North, forget the $75 Taxi. Hospital for MedEvacs is underestimated. City Center to City Center will be the future anyway. Once it's gone it's gone. Pay now or pay later for your short short sighted behavior. Promote aviation, don't try to kill it.

"Mirabel".
This post is so unclear, it hurts to read it. Sometimes serious, sometimes sarcastic, with no discernible break in the argument. In any event, close the thing down. Time will pass, few will care. Take it to the bank. As for everyone poo-pooing about having to commute from North Edmonton to get to YEG, give it a farkin' rest. People in SW Calgary bitchin' about the distance to their airport? People in Oshawa bitchin' about the commute to Mississauga? People in Repentigny bitchin' about their commute to Dorval? Anyone in Halifax still expressing sour grapes over their airport location? People in North Van boycotting Richmond airport?... Gatineau to John A MacDonald muni...? So on and so forth. You get the picture? :idea: People won't die (nice try E.E.), planes will still fly (no bye bye to GA), and the subsequent traffic shift won't change a damn thing at YEG (no overwhelming of ATC). Life will go on, and the city will still be here with just as many content residents, with many more to come.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Turn right/left heading XXX, vectors for the hell of it.

aviator2010
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Edmonton City Centre Airport

Post by aviator2010 »

Is skyshuttle still running? They left every 15 min for downtown cost $11 one way and $15 round trip 15 passenger vans with 8 seats (room for the luggage) would stop at executive flight center, the terminal at the airport and about 100 destinations within the city. Heard they had some business licencing issues afew months back though.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”