Edmonton City Centre Airport

[Commander Rockwell]

Why not look into it yourself - you were "keen enough" to post poor information. Why not take a learning moment and fix your post to reflect some accuaracy. Then spread it around so others can speak to the future of the Muni with knowledge instead of with ignorance and conjecture. You owe it to yourself if you want to be a credible poster.

FYI: the Muni is resident to some medium size jets - a Challenger 604 and a Citation X, beyond the Westwinds, Citations, Hawkers, BE100/200/350 and others that are living there. It is not uncommon to see G-Vs and occasionally a BBJ. There are no issues with balanced field length and any thought of weight restricting the small and medium size jets at YXD. This speaks to the great utility of the airport.
City Council cannot see beyond the tips of their collective nose, the money that travels into the Muni on these aircraft. Multi-million deals can be very time sensitive in terms of negotiation and funds delivery. I have flown several trips into/out of where the sole purpose was to deliver a cheque by a certain time/date. Hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. The development of Edmonton and the surrounding area, and the $$$$ to support it is most certainly not all locally based ! If it was, Edmonton would still be the size of Beaumont or Strathmore, or even (gulp !!) Winnipeg .

[Tube Driver]

I am not saying anything but here are the computer generated numbers for the SII on a wet runway in order to comply with part 135.

Quick numbers on a C550SII

Takeoff

N1 = 96.4 /94.2
V1 = 95
Vr = 95
V2 = 101
Venr = 155
Dist = 9,825
Ret Vapp = 110
Ret Vref = 105
Ret Dist = 2,820 Flaps:20d
MTOW:15,100
Alt: 2,000
Wt: 14,500
Temp: 25 /78
RW:Water < 0.1,Level
Anti-Ice: OFF

Landing
Vapp = 109 Max Wt:14,400
Vref = 104 Alt: 2,000
Wt: 14,000
G/A N1 = 96.4 Temp: 25/78

Land Dist = 6,072
RW:Water < 0.1,Level
135 Min RW = 10,140
Anti-Ice: OFF

[nite_owl]

Hey there, Tube Driver go burn off a little fuel. you're tankering too much gas. Been into/ out of the Muni in Boeings at various weights. You may not be at max but it doesn't mean you can't operate safely at lighter weights.

[Tube Driver]

That is not the point. I said that at times even a small jet under certain weather conditions cannot use the strip. Now lets say you want to depart YXD and head south to a warmer climate, when you take full fuel and your pax, it is not feasable. The wet runway condition is the problem. Slush is worse. I think the 604 guys are doing it 604.

[golden hawk]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... y-airport/

[aviator2010]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story ... costs.html


Airport officials said the average operating cost is $2.5 million a year, offset by $2.5 million a year in revenue, including from leases. But loan repayments and capital upgrades bring the net loss to $1.3 million a year.

Shutting down the City Centre, on the other hand, could bring in a bonanza from selling or leasing the lands — officials estimate anywhere from $91 million to $486 million in net revenue.

[5x5]

The cost factor, however, has largely been missing from discussions.

This happens to be particularly true of the Medevac relocation. The costs will be extremely high and have been overlooked or purposely put aside as in the report prepared for council in 2009.

The costs yet to be tallied are:
- hangar and ramp construction of the wonderful NEW air ambulance facility at EIA.(multiple, if not tens of millions)

- direct road access to from this location as current roads at EIA are not suitable for rapid emergency access (multiple millions)

- interchange with QE2 (hundreds of millions based on cost of 23rd St/Gateway Blvd interchane just built in Edmonton)

- automated traffic light system to provide unimpeded access of ground ambulances into the city hospitals. This suggestion is right out of the City's report (tens of millions)

- helicopter transfers, weather permitting, from EIA (at least 5 times more expensive per transfer than ground based from CCA)

Absolutely right, let's talk costs but let's talk about ALL the costs.

[Conquest Driver]

What about the ultimate potential cost, a human life??

All you need is a major accident on #2 northbound between YEG and the hospitals. Ambulance can't get through, no easy alternative route.

I've hauled transplant organs into YXD a couple of times. Those are very time critical. We pass the cooler to the Ambulance Supervisor then watch the lights and listen to the siren as he bolts. I can see taking them into YEG, then having them turn into bio hazardous waste because of a delay getting them from YEG to the transplant facility.

[gianthammer]

Airport officials said the average operating cost is $2.5 million a year, offset by $2.5 million a year in revenue, including from leases. But loan repayments and capital upgrades bring the net loss to $1.3 million a year.

Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around.

[Krashman]

One and the same it seems...

[aviator2010]

Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around

nothing larger than a 737/A320 could fly out of there which is the whole point of moving the airport

[Main Gear]

Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around

nothing larger than a 737/A320 could fly out of there which is the whole point of moving the airport

Most of the traffic is domestic and transborder, you don't need to get wide bodies in there.

[aviator2010]

Most of the traffic is domestic and transborder, you don't need to get wide bodies in there.

theirs the attitude, hey maybe we could get rid of Aircanada's 1 transatlantic flight (Heathrow). lets be sure to keep Transat out of edmonton too, any other airlines you'd like to keep out of edmonton to help with growth?

[Main Gear]

Alberta doesn't have the population to support two major airports. Calgary is the clear winner. International travel should connect through YYC.

[tailgunner]

"International travel should connect through Calgary".
Wow, what nonsense. These are some of the direct flights that Edmonton would lose if we followed your logic. London Heathrow, Cancun, Phoenix, Chicago, Houston, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, and other holiday charter flights..
I realize that yow,yul,and yyz are domestic, but they too become un reachable, and unprofitable with a 5700 foot runway. You can not uplift enough gas, cargo, and revenue passengers and go anywhere... So by your logic, Edmontonians would also need to connect through Calgary for almost 75% of their destinations.....that's brutal...Oh well, Airco would be around, Chateau Loius, and the Kingsway Business Association..

[Indanao]

Are these the same airport officials that have not supported the utilization of the airport to its full potential for the past 20 years? Just imagine what the City Centre airport could be if hadn't of been left to slowly rot since the International has been around

nothing larger than a 737/A320 could fly out of there which is the whole point of moving the airport

How big do you want em? " Gateway to the North " doesn't include many International Flights. ( That is why they have the, " International Airport".) A city center commuter airport will serve Edmonton well into the future. Once it's gone, It's gone for good. Seems 2010/highflyer don't know or learn from the history of that airport.

[tailgunner]

Indanao,
How well did that concept work in Montreal?
Edmonton IS not Montreal, but the concept of trying to sustain 2 independant, yet, competeing airports with a population base of 1-1.2 million seems a bit much.I beleive it is one or the other. YXD has reached its growth potential re: runway length, expansion etc, while Yeg has ample room to expand and grow as needed.
The cost of infrastructure for roadways etc, is also to be borne by the province and not the taxpayers of the city. Highways, interchanges and such are provincial jurisdiction and thus not directly related to the cost of closing YXD.

[aviator2010]

How big do you want em? " Gateway to the North " doesn't include many International Flights.

canadian North, First Air, westjet, air canada all operate out of the international already for their northern flights. So we close an airport that doesn't offer northern service..............and that's going to interupt northern service? I'm going to need an explination

[Main Gear]

I don't understand why they kicked Quikair out of there for one, and not market the airport to attract more corporations, with air access available on their doorstep. It is quite the advantage over other cities. Getting from YEG to DT is a joke. What a mess of roads.

[RatherBeFlying]

Leduc Intl's principal competitor is Calgary. Mind you, it's an extra 250 km. drive each way; so, you need a considerably better airfare or more convenient schedule to make up for that five hours -- or people you like to visit in Calgary.

Interestingly, so many Edmontonians find it's worth the drive when parking costs are included that YEG ran an advertising campaign to use them instead.

Travelocity shows a bunch of roundtrip fares around $200 for YXD-YYC which is not that much more than the cab ride there and back.

But people here are saying YXD scheduled service has been cancelled???

So if Travelocity is correct, YEG needs to kill YXD to get the traffic that's connecting through YYC.