Where to report Flight School violations

[industrypolice]

Where or how would one go and report labour violations and aviation violations? Do these complaints go to Transport Canada? Is there a website or number to call? Thanks!

[Capt152]

Hmmmmmmmmmm TC

[mcrit]

Labour violations go to the Ministry of Labour. Such violations include being made to take 'duty pilot' shifts, or any other mandatory duty, without pay. Flying violations go to Transport Canada Enforcement.

[fish4life]

250-984-0686 Victoria, Canada
416-628-1934 Toronto, Canada
514-225-7463 Montreal, Canada

[Tim]

Where or how would one go and report labour violations and aviation violations? Do these complaints go to Transport Canada? Is there a website or number to call? Thanks!

can you give us any info as to whats going on? trying to get TC to help you is gonna be tough, i wish you luck. the challenge is getting the rest of the instructor group behind you, while simultaneously fending off the fresh class 4's that would take your job along with its shitty conditions in a heart beat.

[Bede]

Aviation is federally regulated. Therefore employment matters go to HRDC. Be careful how you proceed. If you work there, and don't like some working conditions, but the conditions are legal and you try to report something that's legit, you will have a tough road ahead.

If you're trying to get paid for duty period, but not flying, you won't get very far since you are likely a contract employee and agreed to these conditions. Keep in mind, airline pilots only get paid when they're flying too, not when they're on duty hanging out in a crew room waiting for their next flight.

[tired of the ground]

airline pilots only get paid when they're flying too, not when they're on duty hanging out in a crew room waiting for their next flight.

Speaking of which, how is that legal in itself. Airline pilots are not contract employees. It's somewhat akin to saying that you are only going to pay your office employees actively working. They aren't going to be paid for walking between their desk and the photo copier.

I realize that if you take an airline pilot and pay divided by take duty time it's going to be more than minimum wage. Is that essentially the reason? If you look and some of those turboprop cargo feeders there is no way they are making minimum wage. 28000ish a year F/O divided by 14 hours a day (or more), 5 days a week. hmmm..... 8 bucks an hour, sweet.

[industrypolice]

Where or how would one go and report labour violations and aviation violations? Do these complaints go to Transport Canada? Is there a website or number to call? Thanks!

can you give us any info as to whats going on? trying to get TC to help you is gonna be tough, i wish you luck. the challenge is getting the rest of the instructor group behind you, while simultaneously fending off the fresh class 4's that would take your job along with its shitty conditions in a heart beat.

I do understand its going to be tough, getting the message to TC and even the Labour board, or will it be? Since I've never been involved in any working situations like this. The problem has to do with administration, students, and instructors 'buying' and reporting false time in logbooks, as well as instructors being told to show up for work when there are no bookings, and put in time without being compensated. I'm not sure if this is the industry norm or what, but my understanding is unless its a volunteer position, you legally have the right to get compensation for your work. There was no formal contract signed and unfortunately as you put it the 'fresh class 4s' have bought into the fact that they deserve to be treated this way. I dont think its right, again I'm not sure if this way is the norm in the aviation industry..and I'm not sure why someone would submit themselves to living on nothing and working for free, so I thought I woud raise this issue with the authorities. Thanks

[Shiny Side Up]

Out of curiousity, are you working for, or were working for (assuming you quit) the operation you describe?

Of the wrong doings you list the matter with padded times is one directly under TC's mantle to resolve. It could be very tough for them to find it out if siad company was really active in fudgin the paperwork to cover their tracks - though they can find out eventually. The ammount of work entailed in pretending to fly airplanes though is hardly worth it, you might as well get or give out actual airplane time.

As for the charges of people working for free, that can be tougher. There's a lot of loopholes in that, and that's from experience from both sides or the employer and employee coin. For example, when the employees are called in and there's no flying as you say are they assigned other jobs?

[FlaplessDork]

I do understand its going to be tough, getting the message to TC and even the Labour board, or will it be? Since I've never been involved in any working situations like this. The problem has to do with administration, students, and instructors 'buying' and reporting false time in logbooks, as well as instructors being told to show up for work when there are no bookings, and put in time without being compensated. I'm not sure if this is the industry norm or what, but my understanding is unless its a volunteer position, you legally have the right to get compensation for your work. There was no formal contract signed and unfortunately as you put it the 'fresh class 4s' have bought into the fact that they deserve to be treated this way. I dont think its right, again I'm not sure if this way is the norm in the aviation industry..and I'm not sure why someone would submit themselves to living on nothing and working for free, so I thought I woud raise this issue with the authorities. Thanks

It has been the norm at a lot of places for a long time.

From personal experience my advice would be to be careful and think this through thoroughly. Try to deal with it internally first in a professional manor. Never pull the TC Card on your company unless there is immediate safety violations. Protect your career, and your family. Don't burn your bridges. If they are unwilling listen, change, or negotiate then secretly start looking for another job.

You should not have excepted the job without a contract or agreement.

[Bede]

tired of the ground,

It's legal because there is a contract (collective in some cases) in place that stipulates these conditions. We come to a company knowing what we are agreeing to.

[br14]

instructors 'buying' and reporting false time in logbooks, as well as instructors being told to show up for work when there are no bookings, and put in time without being compensated. I'm not sure if this is the industry norm or what, but my understanding is unless its a volunteer position, you legally have the right to get compensation for your work. There was no formal contract signed and unfortunately as you put it the 'fresh class 4s' have bought into the fact that they deserve to be treated this way. I dont think its right, again I'm not sure if this way is the norm in the aviation industry..and I'm not sure why someone would submit themselves to living on nothing and working for free, so I thought I woud raise this issue with the authorities. Thanks

It has been the norm at a lot of places for a long time.

From personal experience my advice would be to be careful and think this through thoroughly. Try to deal with it internally first in a professional manor. Never pull the TC Card on your company unless there is immediate safety violations. Protect your career, and your family. Don't burn your bridges. If they are unwilling listen, change, or negotiate then secretly start looking for another job.

You should not have excepted the job without a contract or agreement.

Surely reporting false time in logbooks is a severe breach of regulations?

And as long as individual pilots accept this somewhat desperate state of affairs things will never improve.

It's about time pilot associations organized together to improve the professionalism of flight schools. Perhaps by limiting entry to the profession so that aviation could be the career the flight schools promise.

[GTODD]

The problem has to do with administration, students, and instructors 'buying' and reporting false time in logbooks, as well as instructors being told to show up for work when there are no bookings, and put in time without being compensated. I'm not sure if this is the industry norm or what, but my understanding is unless its a volunteer position, you legally have the right to get compensation for your work.

Sadly the part about instructors being expected to show up when there is no work to do is very common. Especially when you are a class 4 instructor or even an experienced instructor starting at a new flight school.

However the part about false times in logbooks does sound very greecy. Can you elaborate a litle more on what is happening or what city this flight school is in?

[Bede]

Sadly the part about instructors being expected to show up when there is no work to do is very common. Especially when you are a class 4 instructor or even an experienced instructor starting at a new flight school.

I tell our instructors to only come in when there's flying to be done. If they have to come in to supervise a student going solo, they get $20/hr. We have decent instructor's and pay them accordingly. Employer's - you get what you pay for!

[modi13]

Sadly the part about instructors being expected to show up when there is no work to do is very common. Especially when you are a class 4 instructor or even an experienced instructor starting at a new flight school.

I tell our instructors to only come in when there's flying to be done. If they have to come in to supervise a student going solo, they get $20/hr. We have decent instructor's and pay them accordingly. Employer's - you get what you pay for!

I was reprimanded for not showing up when my schedule was open but I wasn't booked. Apparently I was expected to be at the school from 8 am to 6 pm, regardless of whether I was flying, without getting paid; if my schedule was closed, I couldn't be booked, so I wouldn't have been flying anyway, and I would get in trouble for minimal availability. I promptly quit.

[industrypolice]

I think this needs to be raised with TC and the labour board or the government. And I think all pilots should stand up and not accpet being treated or paid below what they deserve. How can a pilot be paid less than a Harveys manager or a call centre telemarketer. Thats why the easy thing for me would be to walk away, but I am just sick and tired of these companies getting away with exploiting our passion for flying.

To answer some of your questions. I witnessed the fudging of time between an instructor and a student having a discussion and also it is common knowledge that students arrive after hours to 'pretend to fly the plane'.

As for the actual working conditions it is very similar to what the previous poster stated. Employees are expected to arrive early morning to evenings even if they are not booked to fly and they are not assigned other work, and are not compensated even if they are.

It appears that this is happening at many more locations. So if anyone would llike to share their story then please feel free to do so here or PM me. The more people that step forward the better and hopefully thier will be some change in how these 'professional transport canada certified' operations are run, whose duty is to train 'future professional pilots'

[Seriously?]

I worked at a place that had a similar issue. We had to come in to work but only got paid if we flew (not instructing, sightseeing tours).

Well, some guy worked there who was about to leave the industry completely and so didnt care about his name in a small world. He contacted the labour board about this problem and some time later the labour board reviewed the issue and ruled in his favour. I saw the letter from them to the company, and it basically said they were breaking the law and would be forced to back-pay this employee.

The interesting thing is that it was complainant-specific....the labour board didn't then do an investigation on the company and ALL it's employees....it just ruled on the issue ONE pilot brought up about HIS case.

No other pilot was planning on leaving the industry, so a further complaint was never launched and the company continued on as it had.


I guess I or the rest of the pilots didn't help the cause by not complaining to the labour board as well, but we were young and full of ambition to get going in this industry, and we didn't want to turn our name into mud.

[loopa]

Sadly the part about instructors being expected to show up when there is no work to do is very common. Especially when you are a class 4 instructor or even an experienced instructor starting at a new flight school.

I tell our instructors to only come in when there's flying to be done. If they have to come in to supervise a student going solo, they get $20/hr. We have decent instructor's and pay them accordingly. Employer's - you get what you pay for!

That's awesome man!

[scopiton]

Where or how would one go and report labour violations and aviation violations? Do these complaints go to Transport Canada? Is there a website or number to call? Thanks!

they're the people to be contacted when there's a car's violation and you're id will be kept confidential : http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... ts-670.htm

[C-MNOP]

From another forum:

Do you know that when you see a pilot, he's not being paid?


When you see a pilot going through the same security you go through, he's not being paid.

When you see a pilot walking in the terminal, he's not being paid.

When you see a pilot at the gate pulling up paper work, planning the flight, and conferring with the agent, he's not being paid.

When you see a pilot walking around the aircraft doing a preflight inspection, he's not being paid.

When you board the aircraft and look in the cockpit and see the pilots setting up the aircraft, they're not getting paid.

When you land safely at your destination and walk off the aircraft and see the pilots shutting down the aircraft, they're not being paid.

When you see a pilot waiting for a ride to a hotel for the night, he's not being paid.

The only time the pilot of your aircraft is getting paid is when you DON"T see him... when he's locked behind the cockpit door as you push back from the gate. Every thing else he does until this point is for free. For no wages. Nothing!

The average airline pilot is at work for 12- 14 hours per day, yet gets paid for less than 6 - 7 hours.

The average airline pilot is away from home, at work, for 70+ hours a week, yet gets paid for only 15 to 18 hours per weeks work.

Most pilots schedules have them working 15 days or more a month... that means they are not at home half the month.

Holidays, weekends, birthdays, anniversaries, summer vacations.... not at home.

A majority of pilots have 4 year college degrees, or more. Then they begin training as pilots.

A large majority of Pilots have spent 8 years or more flying in the military, risking their lives and protecting your freedom for wages most of you wouldn't accept in the civilian world.

Civilian trained pilots have spent $50,000 or more to acquire the training that qualifies them for a Regional Airline job, which pays a wage less than the poverty level in most western countries.

Most pilots do not attain the required experience level to be hired by a major airline until they are well passed the age of 30. The average age of a new hire airline pilot is 32.

Until recently, airline pilots were required to retire at the age of 60. This gave most of them less than 28 years to maximize their income and fund their pensions, hoping that greedy airline execs won't steal it. Today, they still have to worry about the greedy execs.

Airline pilots are subject to random drug and alcohol testing, any time they are at work. Fail it and they lose their job.

Airline pilots are required to undergo rigorous re-training and certification every 6 to 9 months, at which time they could fail and lose their jobs, licenses and livelihood.

Airline pilots are required to submit to random government "Line checks" during which their license could be revoked and livelihood destroyed.

Airline pilots are exposed to radiation levels far exceeding the normal safe radiation limits mandated by the FDA.

Airline pilots are required to submit to a government medical examination every 6 months (Captains) and 12 months as First Officers. Year after year. Fail that, and their career is over.

How many of you go to work where people try to kill you? How many of you have had your office turned into a cruise missile? How many of you work behind a bullet proof door?

How many of you are responsible for the lives of 200- 300 people, with any small mistake in your performance resulting in the death of your customers (and yourselves), and the financial destruction of your company?

How many of your jobs require you to fight your way through thunderstorms, rain, snow, ice and turbulence, day and night, year after year? No mistakes allowed? The excuse " I had a bad day at work" never accepted?

Many pilots volunteer (on their own time and own dime) to be trained as Federal Flight Deck Officers, and carry weapons to defend their aircraft, crew and passengers. They maintain their proficiency and qualifications twice a year on their own time and money.

How many of you go to work where you are searched, patted down and your personal items scrutinized by strangers, even though you can kill everyone in your place of work with your two bare hands?

Airline pilot pay scales and hours worked are usually posted by absurdly overcompensated Airline Exec's who are waging a PR campaign against their Pilot Unions and trying to justify their own greedy bonus's and draconian wage and pension cuts. Cheap a** airline passengers just love this s*** since they don't care if their airplane is flown by the lowest denominator, as long as they can fly for next to nothing. Course if they don't get to their destination, their next of kin can sue....