WS GOOD WILL

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OceansEdge
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by OceansEdge »

Go Guns wrote:But then they started charging $3 for a headset to watch their free entertainment systems... bastards... :roll:

Funny, you never see people on line bitching about the $10 that Hudson or Cara charged them for a beer in the terminal, but charge them $3 for a headset and watch the feathers fly...
Yeah well - Hudson and Cara don't charge me $2 for the coaster and napkin ...

It's NOT the $3 I mind. It's the continuous nickle and diming; the constant reduction of the little civilities that used to make flying as a passenger a little more pleasant than it is these days.
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whiteguy
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by whiteguy »

OceansEdge wrote:
It's NOT the $3 I mind. It's the continuous nickle and diming; the constant reduction of the little civilities that used to make flying as a passenger a little more pleasant than it is these days.

So if you got everything for free still i.e. meals, headsets, seat selection, who would you fly with? AC charging $150 one way to YVR or WJ charging $100?

If you want it pay for it!!!

or

Don't pay the $3, bring your own friggin head set!!!!!!
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OceansEdge
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by OceansEdge »

whiteguy wrote:
So if you got everything for free still i.e. meals, headsets, seat selection, who would you fly with? AC charging $150 one way to YVR or WJ charging $100?

If you want it pay for it!!!

or

Don't pay the $3, bring your own friggin head set!!!!!!
I refer you back to my original post...
And in the meantime I applaud Porter, and chose Porter now whenever I can - because I appreciate the attempt to bring a little civility back to airline travel. Ya know personally I'd pay $400 each way - St John's to Toronto return - each time, every time, for just to be treated like a paying customer again - not cattle class. Then again - I believe in clear, understandable, transparent pricing and pricing advertising. Seat 27A costs $427, maybe seat 27D also oughta coast $427. And maybe an advertised $274 fare to Heathrow ought not to be $2300 return for 2 by the time I've finished booking. But I guess that's why I'm not an airline exec.... my business model would never fly.
And I'll say again, it's not the $3 I mind, it's not paying for a quality of service I mind, it's the nickle and diming to death of this industry. It's the Walmart mentality of the traveling public and by extension the airlines serving them. I would rather pay a fair price for fair services. And no despite the press and the who, whoooing, WS is NOT cheaper than AC.

Just a random side by side test this morning. Traveling one week from today, returning in two weeks:

Code: Select all

YVR-YYC:                                             YYT-YYZ:
WS - non-stop 119.00                                  WS - non stop 239.00
AC - non-stop 119.00                                  AC - 1 connection YUL 199.00
                                                              PD - direct 2 stops 169.00 
YYC-YVR:                                                   
WS - non-stop 99.00                                    YYZ-YYT
AC - non-stop 99.00                                     WS - direct 1 stop 149.00 
                                                              AC - non-stop 149.00
Total all in:                                                PD - direct 2 stops 169.00
WS - 340.34                                               
AC - 340.34                                                 Total all in:
                                                              WS - 551.72
                                                              AC - 506.52
                                                              PD - 500.87
So yeah... all other things being more or less equal, I'm gonna go based on service, aircraft, and most convenient times. Despite the 2 stops, I would choose Porter in the 2nd case. YTZ is more convenient, I like the service a whole lot better, and yes I do like the Q400's better than the Embraer, and the better leg room than WS's 737's. Yes, it's a longer flight (+1hr or there abouts), but it's still direct, and the times are convenient for me.

Personally, I would not mind paying more for a flight - AC's Tango Plus, or Latitude fares - but right now, why would I pay $450 vs $149 for the same service? And no - I don't think I'm in the majority, the success of this particular business model would say that I'm by far in the minority. Of course I don't happen to think that's a good thing. From where I'm sitting it looks more and more and more like the industry is gonna keep on following the People's Air, Ryan Air model of as 'cheap as we possibly can', service deteriorates, quality of product deteriorates, and it has an impact throughout the industry. The traveling public who can buy their Calgary to Vancouver seat for $99 really doesn't understand, and kvetches at length about paying $269 to fly to Goose Bay from St John's, or $279 to fly from Winnipeg to Thompson. The regionals fight every day, and cut every dollar they can to try and survive a market where the public has come to expect $99 fares.

So no, I'm not a cheap bitch who wants everything for nothing. Rather just the opposite. I'd like to pay more for a more civilized way of traveling. I'd LIKE to have that option, but I don't. We live in a world of Walmarts. I know there aren't many who'd agree with me, obviously I don't know a damned thing about the airline industry; if I actually knew what I was talking about I'd have a corner office and a secretary. It's just my wee perspective, from my wee corner of this business, YMMV.
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sky's the limit
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by sky's the limit »

OceansEdge wrote: So no, I'm not a cheap bitch who wants everything for nothing. Rather just the opposite. I'd like to pay more for a more civilized way of traveling. I'd LIKE to have that option, but I don't. We live in a world of Walmarts. I know there aren't many who'd agree with me, obviously I don't know a damned thing about the airline industry; if I actually knew what I was talking about I'd have a corner office and a secretary. It's just my wee perspective, from my wee corner of this business, YMMV.

I agree with you 100%. :goodman: The whole industry is in a race to the bottom, I suppose you could say that about almost every industry these days - a "world of Walmarts" indeed.

stl
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xkbal
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by xkbal »

The public is getting exactly what the majority of the public want. If that wasn't the case then Westjet, Southwest, Ryanair, etc. wouldn't be the successes that they currently are. Many people complain about it but, at the end of the day, are voting with their wallets.
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by KAG »

I too have to agree with this Wal-Mart-afaction of our lives. I’m not a big fan.

We (WJ) have a good business plan; we obviously cater to the "budget minded" traveler and it seems to be working. Blame or congratulate us, either way this business model was going to be filled.
As for a race to the bottom; please explain. We have new machines with good leg room, we do have in-flight entertainment (although I think AC trumps us in here), we don’t have hot meals but we do have buy on board, which is ever improving. Yes we charge for headsets, pillows/blankets, ETC, but when you’re paying only a fraction of what you’d pay 15 years ago, there is a little wiggle room to spend a few bucks here and there and still come out ahead.

All this and our employees are paid well, treated well and we in turn treat our quests well.
Sure the jokes are not for everyone, but it’s damn near impossible to impress everyone all the time.

I do wonder if there will be a renaissance of sorts, a backlash to this Wal-Mart mentality of buying everything at the lowest price (and quality). We can’t get any cheaper, so I figure we can only go up. I also think as WJ gets bigger and matures, so will our service, still friendly and fun, but maybe a little more professional.
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by FOX69 »

There's a very good reason the Wal Mart is the largest corporation in the world. Consumers want no frills pricing. They want to decide for themselves what to spend the extra cash on. WS spends lots of time and money researching the trends and getting feedback. In addition, the "folksy, fun, caring" brand is by no means a mistake. Plenty of time and money is spent trying to get the mix just right. And it's gone very well. WS brand recognition in Canada is the envy of just about every major corporation except maybe Tim Hortons and a few others.

The challenge now is to keep the service in line with the image.
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OceansEdge
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by OceansEdge »

FOX69 wrote:There's a very good reason the Wal Mart is the largest corporation in the world. Consumers want no frills pricing. They want to decide for themselves what to spend the extra cash on. WS spends lots of time and money researching the trends and getting feedback. In addition, the "folksy, fun, caring" brand is by no means a mistake. Plenty of time and money is spent trying to get the mix just right. And it's gone very well. WS brand recognition in Canada is the envy of just about every major corporation except maybe Tim Hortons and a few others.

The challenge now is to keep the service in line with the image.
I know there aren't many who'd agree with me, obviously I don't know a damned thing about the airline industry; if I actually knew what I was talking about I'd have a corner office and a secretary.
Yep, you're 100% right - its exactly what the traveling public wants.

Still makes me just a little sad - but I'm an old fart. I'm not particularly young, or hip or trendy - and my idea of fun is watching the sun set over the bay from the back deck with G&T and a good book, a wet dog at my feet. I'm probably only a year or two away from a rocking chair and a shot gun on the front porch
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bandaid
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by bandaid »

I've flown a fair amount with both AC and WS and I have no complaints with either of them. My wife travels way more than I do and has really no complaints. I can remember only once where she missed a connecting flight due to her flight being late to arrive and had to spend the night in YVR but for the amount that she travels, that's not too bad.
And so far as the corny comedy act goes with Westjet. I guess STL, not everyone on the airplane is tired and cranky.
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Meatservo
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by Meatservo »

OceansEdge wrote:[
Yep, you're 100% right - its exactly what the traveling public wants.

Still makes me just a little sad - but I'm an old fart. I'm not particularly young, or hip or trendy - and my idea of fun is watching the sun set over the bay from the back deck with G&T and a good book, a wet dog at my feet. I'm probably only a year or two away from a rocking chair and a shot gun on the front porch
Word. I remember when I was a little dude playing with model aeroplanes, it must have been 30 years ago, I also used to read "MAD" magazine.. I remember a cartoon in MAD that depicted "AIR TRAVEL IN THE PAST", showing a small DC-3-like plane, with smart-looking uniformed pilots politely welcoming well-heeled-looking passengers aboard. The next panel showed "AIR TRAVEL OF THE FUTURE", and depicted a long-haired overweight pilot wearing a pair of coveralls and an orange safety vest pushing his way through a choked gaggle of a hundred or more passengers wearing dirty wife-beater t-shirts, all trying to force their way down the "jetway" at the same time.

The future is now. :(
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by CFR »

I've been a West Jet customer since the "festival seating" days. When I have a choice I usually go WJ but often my schedule and connections means I must go Big Red. I do prefer Wj with one exception, I cannot get used to first names, especially when referring to the flight crew. While I know the crews are well trained there is just something about being piloted by "Capt Bill" and "First Officer Skippy" that just doesn't seem right.

I miss inflight catering but not that much since no one could do it like Wardair!
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iflyforpie
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by iflyforpie »

Meatservo wrote:
OceansEdge wrote:[
Yep, you're 100% right - its exactly what the traveling public wants.

Still makes me just a little sad - but I'm an old fart. I'm not particularly young, or hip or trendy - and my idea of fun is watching the sun set over the bay from the back deck with G&T and a good book, a wet dog at my feet. I'm probably only a year or two away from a rocking chair and a shot gun on the front porch
Word. I remember when I was a little dude playing with model aeroplanes, it must have been 30 years ago, I also used to read "MAD" magazine.. I remember a cartoon in MAD that depicted "AIR TRAVEL IN THE PAST", showing a small DC-3-like plane, with smart-looking uniformed pilots politely welcoming well-heeled-looking passengers aboard. The next panel showed "AIR TRAVEL OF THE FUTURE", and depicted a long-haired overweight pilot wearing a pair of coveralls and an orange safety vest pushing his way through a choked gaggle of a hundred or more passengers wearing dirty wife-beater t-shirts, all trying to force their way down the "jetway" at the same time.

The future is now. :(
What everybody seems to forget is the price....

Airline ticket prices in the 30s, 40s, and even 50s were comparable to what we pay now. This was when $2, $3, or $4 a day was a good wage. 'Coach' wasn't a class--everything was First Class on the airlines. 'Coach' was the day car on the train, the Greyhound bus, or a berth on a ship. Most of the population of that era didn't travel very long distances or at all for leisure purposes.

For comparable prices adjusted for inflation you can book First Class, or buy a fractional in a PC-12 or Citation depending on how much you travel. Only die-hard aviation buffs would want to hear the sound of 1820s for hours on end as you go through the soup at 12,000 feet--no matter how good the veal is.

But since prices have come down, so has the class and the ammenities. This is why we have the 'People of Westjet'...
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aviator2010
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by aviator2010 »

This is why we have the 'People of Westjet'
speaking of class your it
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010
FOX69
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by FOX69 »

What's wrong with "The people of WestJet"?
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iflyforpie
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by iflyforpie »

Nothing I suppose. Just like there is nothing wrong with the People of Walmart.... :?
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Intentional Left Bank
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by Intentional Left Bank »

CFR wrote:... I cannot get used to first names, especially when referring to the flight crew. While I know the crews are well trained there is just something about being piloted by "Capt Bill" and "First Officer Skippy" that just doesn't seem right.
Some F/A's take it upon themselves to use our first names only. Perhaps because some Captains specifically request only first names be used. Personally, I agree it does sound odd to not including the last name. On the other hand, the first time a hitherto unknown guest sent me a message on facebook I quickly realized that search for ILB, city=YYC, network=WJ, will narrow the search down pretty quick. It didn't take me long to scrub my public profile!
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Meatservo
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Re: WS GOOD WILL

Post by Meatservo »

Really? Some pilots here would resent feeling compelled to tidy up their facebook pages. They feel that if they want to put up pictures of themselves creeping the beach during spring break or attending the Tijuana Pony Show, it's their own business, and society has no right to criticize them for what they choose to do, and boast about on the internet, during their spare time. Get with the times, left bank. :rolleyes:
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