The importance of having a degree

[AnotherUselessPilot]

If your reading comprehension was above grade eight and you could do basic math you would have a fairly good idea when I entered the industry by understanding what you are reading.....so here try again.

Just because you were employed for "X" amount of years as a pilot does not mean that you began in the industry in 2018-X. First of all, whether those years were contiguous is unknown to us.
Secondly, haven't you been retired for "Y" years? That would also need to be considered to complete the calculation.

Isn't this the perfect example of how additional education can be good for a pilot? Perhaps you should have stayed in high school just a little longer.

AUP

[C.W.E.]

Perhaps you should have stayed in high school just a little longer.

Is grade eight considered high school now?

When I was in school high school started in grade nine.

However let me elaborate a bit more on my background and experience just to make it easier for you to figure out my flying career.


I have with over thirty thousand accident and violation free hours having acquired licenses in Canada, Europe, USA and Australia for three categories of aircraft.

Towards the end of my career starting in 1996 I did most of my flying outside of Canada because I could make more money flying in other countries.

When I retired from full time flying I was making an average of a thousand dollars a day and all my work was by referral and I was so busy I finally just quit which was the best decision I ever made in aviation.

I am now eighty two years old and have decided to renew my licenses and do part time sea plane training for Pacific Seaplanes because I am bored.

The medical process to renew the licenses has been rather evolved and I am awaiting the results of the latest test the doctor has asked for which I did yesterday, I am fairly sure I will get it back but if I don't it will not really bother me.

My first flying lesson was in June of 1953.

Do you think I am to old to go back to teaching flying?

[AnotherUselessPilot]

Is grade eight considered high school now?

Do you think I am to old to go back to teaching flying?

Not at all. If anything, we could use more people like you!
Yes, high school starts in grade 8 now.
Sorry if my post came off as rude.
Best of luck with your medical.

AUP

[C.W.E.]

Thanks:

Maybe I should have gone to a psychiatrist instead of a medical doctor?

I fully understand why they are really doing an in depth medical before signing me off to fly commercially again.

[chris_h1976]

Back to the OP, I personally have not seen any correlation between non aviation formal education and cockpit job performance (and I have one of those little aviation college diplomas where I had to do calculus, big deal). Seen good and not so good regardless of diplomas/degrees or lack thereof.

When you get down to it, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a good pilot, you need to know your stuff so obviously you need a capacity to learn, possess what is commonly referred to but hard to define as common sense, an ability to multitask, and a minimum of hand eye coordination that is known in the business as hands and feet, an ability to communicate, and the ability to work with others if operating in a multi crew environment. All are required and need to function simultaneously in order to avoid, shall we say, irregular outcomes.

BUT

The theoretical HR world of our time does not always work that way, what impresses the current regime are diplomas and degrees, so, practically speaking, well, play the game and if you can, get some papers. A political science or law degree will go a long way to impress the gatekeepers who know nothing about what operating airplanes is all about but having said that, nothing wrong with having additional qualifications.

One of the most important and heavily weighted elements, more than your technical qualifications or experience, for success at big company interviews, are pretty much the same things you find on the internet, namely, impressing the interviewer by demonstrating how you answer questions such as why you should be hired instead of the other guy, what makes you better, why you are the best qualified, what you have done above and beyond the call of duty, what makes you stand out, etc.....

I was never good at interviews, can't say what makes me better than the other guy

Cheers.

This is the best, most constructive and informative response in this whole 6-page thread.

On behalf of those of us who suffered through all the egotistical BS to actually learn something that may help us in our pursuits, I thank you Sir.

Chris

[rookiepilot]

Back to the OP, I personally have not seen any correlation between non aviation formal education and cockpit job performance (and I have one of those little aviation college diplomas where I had to do calculus, big deal). Seen good and not so good regardless of diplomas/degrees or lack thereof.

When you get down to it, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a good pilot, you need to know your stuff so obviously you need a capacity to learn, possess what is commonly referred to but hard to define as common sense, an ability to multitask, and a minimum of hand eye coordination that is known in the business as hands and feet, an ability to communicate, and the ability to work with others if operating in a multi crew environment. All are required and need to function simultaneously in order to avoid, shall we say, irregular outcomes.

BUT

The theoretical HR world of our time does not always work that way, what impresses the current regime are diplomas and degrees, so, practically speaking, well, play the game and if you can, get some papers. A political science or law degree will go a long way to impress the gatekeepers who know nothing about what operating airplanes is all about but having said that, nothing wrong with having additional qualifications.

One of the most important and heavily weighted elements, more than your technical qualifications or experience, for success at big company interviews, are pretty much the same things you find on the internet, namely, impressing the interviewer by demonstrating how you answer questions such as why you should be hired instead of the other guy, what makes you better, why you are the best qualified, what you have done above and beyond the call of duty, what makes you stand out, etc.....

I was never good at interviews, can't say what makes me better than the other guy

Cheers.

This is the best, most constructive and informative response in this whole 6-page thread.

On behalf of those of us who suffered through all the egotistical BS to actually learn something that may help us in our pursuits, I thank you Sir.

Chris

A questionable reason to go through the extensive work of achieving a degree. Purely to "play the game" and "impress the current regime".

I would submit living life on ones own terms, not to impress others into a position, where a degree serves no practical purpose.

Where it does, doctor, lawyer, engineering, etc, that's completely different.

Anyone I would need to impress with a useless piece of paper for my employment, I would not want to work for.

Furthermore, if that is the hiring standards of the airlines, ie a degree vs real world flying experience, I raise an eyebrow at that.

[photofly]

The best reason for getting a degree is the same as the justification for all study: an interest in the subject and a desire to learn more about it.

[chris_h1976]

Back to the OP, I personally have not seen any correlation between non aviation formal education and cockpit job performance (and I have one of those little aviation college diplomas where I had to do calculus, big deal). Seen good and not so good regardless of diplomas/degrees or lack thereof.

When you get down to it, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a good pilot, you need to know your stuff so obviously you need a capacity to learn, possess what is commonly referred to but hard to define as common sense, an ability to multitask, and a minimum of hand eye coordination that is known in the business as hands and feet, an ability to communicate, and the ability to work with others if operating in a multi crew environment. All are required and need to function simultaneously in order to avoid, shall we say, irregular outcomes.

BUT

The theoretical HR world of our time does not always work that way, what impresses the current regime are diplomas and degrees, so, practically speaking, well, play the game and if you can, get some papers. A political science or law degree will go a long way to impress the gatekeepers who know nothing about what operating airplanes is all about but having said that, nothing wrong with having additional qualifications.

One of the most important and heavily weighted elements, more than your technical qualifications or experience, for success at big company interviews, are pretty much the same things you find on the internet, namely, impressing the interviewer by demonstrating how you answer questions such as why you should be hired instead of the other guy, what makes you better, why you are the best qualified, what you have done above and beyond the call of duty, what makes you stand out, etc.....

I was never good at interviews, can't say what makes me better than the other guy

Cheers.

This is the best, most constructive and informative response in this whole 6-page thread.

On behalf of those of us who suffered through all the egotistical BS to actually learn something that may help us in our pursuits, I thank you Sir.

Chris

A questionable reason to go through the extensive work of achieving a degree. Purely to "play the game" and "impress the current regime".

I (have) refused to do so.

Yes I'm not in this industry, but I advocate living life on ones own terms, not to impress others, regardless of profession, where a degree serves no practical purpose.

Where it does, doctor, lawyer, engineering, etc, that's completely different.

Anyone I would need do impress with a useless piece of paper for employment, I do not want to work for, ever.

Rookie, I agree with you 100%. I do not have a degree and at this stage of my life I will not spend years attaining one when I can do more constructive things with my time and money.
But this is yet another example of a good topic of conversation/ informative thread getting hijacked by big egos and personal opinions.

But then, I guess that is what the interwebs is for.....

The best reason for getting a degree is the same as the justification for all study: an interest in the subject and a desire to learn more about it.

Yes Sir, of course, agreed.

[rookiepilot]

I am reading a John Grishom book called the Rooster Bar. My favourite fiction author.

Yes, I see the eye rolls....its about the private college scams I think are real -- his books usually mix in a lot of truth --poor quality (in the book, law schools) diploma mills that promise the world and saddle students with an avalanche of debt. It's the debt I question the value of for young people where a degree really isn't needed.

But I'm old fashioned compared to the wiser ones here, because I hate debt.

Debt removes choices. It forces one into servitude, which is exactly why society -- define that as you will, banks ect... tries so hard to get one addicted to debt. Then they have you, and you work for them, (often) the rest of your life. I hate that, and refused to go that way.

Now if the provinces want to pay for everything and blow up their own finances, hey that's different I guess. Hard to argue with free.

Agree or not with my views, the book anyway is a fascinating and fun read.

[C.W.E.]

But I'm old fashioned compared to the wiser ones here, because I hate debt.

That makes two of us who try and avoid debt.

With regard to flying for a living I avoided debt by having my employers pay for most of my training once I started flying for a living, I payed for my PPL, CPL, instructors rating and my commercial Gyroplane license.

All the rest of my ratings and upgrades were payed for by my employers starting with the multi engine rating and then my helicopter license.

It is easy to get into debt in the flying business if you are not really careful about how you upgrade.

[complexintentions]

Add me to the list of folks vehemently opposed to debt. Did my level best to stay out of it throughout my life, but incurred a bit during the early career years as the job situation was..unstable. I'd get my head just above water and yet another employer would shut their doors. But after leaving Canada, paid off my modest debt within four months and have never owed a cent since nor payed one iota of interest. That was over ten years ago. And I will never be in debt again. Ever. To the point where I would rather never return to Canada than risk getting back on that treadmill.

There is a case to be made for modest debt if a proper cost benefit analysis has been done to justify it. But the vast majority of debt is absolutely, as rookiepilot says, a millstone around people's necks. And no, calling it "good debt" doesn't make it so. It absolutely blows my mind the amounts of money people casually chain themselves to paying back. Not an ounce of due diligence for six-figure loans for a dubious "education". I prefer to be beholden to no one. There is a massive amount of pain ahead for the indebted.

Anyone who thinks a conversation about debt isn't relevant in a discussion about obtaining a degree just isn't paying attention.

Also, if . gets his medical back I am SO getting my long-delayed float rating, and I know exactly where now!

[rookiepilot]

Complex,

There is an extremely stupid status symbol associated with having a degree, and perpetuated by a couple of posters on this thread, that if you have a degree you have made it and are someone.

If a boatload of debt is the cost, that's ok. I'm "someone" of importance, is the belief.

Frankly, that is the stupidest rational I've ever heard, and it's a lie that will make many, many young people a perpetual slave to debt if not careful.

I'd rather have my financial freedom.

Others can have whatever passes in their brains for "status". I mock this, openingly.

My best career advice to anyone, is ignore the idiotic advice to chase "status", and pursue "freedom" instead, by making wise, prudent financial choices in every area of life.

[chris_h1976]

But I'm old fashioned compared to the wiser ones here, because I hate debt.

That makes two of us who try and avoid debt.

With regard to flying for a living I avoided debt by having my employers pay for most of my training once I started flying for a living, I payed for my PPL, CPL, instructors rating and my commercial Gyroplane license.

All the rest of my ratings and upgrades were payed for by my employers starting with the multi engine rating and then my helicopter license.

It is easy to get into debt in the flying business if you are not really careful about how you upgrade.

Add me to the list of folks vehemently opposed to debt. Did my level best to stay out of it throughout my life, but incurred a bit during the early career years as the job situation was..unstable. I'd get my head just above water and yet another employer would shut their doors. But after leaving Canada, paid off my modest debt within four months and have never owed a cent since nor payed one iota of interest. That was over ten years ago. And I will never be in debt again. Ever. To the point where I would rather never return to Canada than risk getting back on that treadmill.

There is a case to be made for modest debt if a proper cost benefit analysis has been done to justify it. But the vast majority of debt is absolutely, as rookiepilot says, a millstone around people's necks. And no, calling it "good debt" doesn't make it so. It absolutely blows my mind the amounts of money people casually chain themselves to paying back. Not an ounce of due diligence for six-figure loans for a dubious "education". I prefer to be beholden to no one. There is a massive amount of pain ahead for the indebted.

Anyone who thinks a conversation about debt isn't relevant in a discussion about obtaining a degree just isn't paying attention.

Also, if . gets his medical back I am SO getting my long-delayed float rating, and I know exactly where now!

Also all great advice and words to live by.

I got sucked into the debt black hole a while ago when I was younger and immature, and am still taking responsible steps to get out of it. But no more; at 42 I see now how destructive it is to a person's life- physically and emotionally.

[C.W.E.]

Also, if . gets his medical back I am SO getting my long-delayed float rating, and I know exactly where now!

It has been interesting the difference between the medicals I used to get when I was flying for a living and the one I just went through.

The doctor put me through every test known to man or beast the last one was a glucose tolerance test that took two hours of my time just sitting around doing nothing.

As far as I know I am finished with tests because I met the doctor in the grocery store a couple of days ago and he asked me if I had got a new Canadian Aviation document he could sign.

I told him I would start the process of getting one of those abortions in a few days, he is aware I don't really care if I get one or not.

But if Complex wants to get a float rating I will get at it and jump through T.C.'s hoops like some animal in a circus.

I had no problem finding my old abortion because it was in the back of my junk drawer where I put it when they first sent it to me in 2010.

[rookiepilot]

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/09/news/co ... index.html

For some strange reason I am inspired by this kind of story rather more than those partying though college and getting a liberal arts degree. Maybe it's me. This guy wouldn't never gotten hired in Canada, clearly.

[Rupesh]

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/09/news/co ... index.html

For some strange reason I am inspired by this kind of story rather more than those partying though college and getting a liberal arts degree. Maybe it's me. This guy wouldn't never gotten hired in Canada, clearly.GBWhatsApp APK

Loved his line - A lot of the things that happened that went wrong, really wrong, were experiences and an education. That education was priceless.

[rookiepilot]

-poor quality (in the book, law schools) diploma mills that promise the world and saddle students with an avalanche of debt. It's the debt I question the value of for young people where a degree really isn't needed.

But I'm old fashioned compared to the wiser ones here, because I hate debt.

Debt removes choices. It forces one into servitude, which is exactly why society -- define that as you will, banks ect... tries so hard to get one addicted to debt. Then they have you, and you work for them, (often) the rest of your life. I hate that, and refused to go that way.

Nothing has changed in five years, except,

Education quality is lower. Social Issues in schools are higher. Debt is much more expensive.

But the crowd still thinks a six figure degree and associated debt is the status symbol to success.

People laugh at advice to stay debt free.

They’ll stop laughing when their parents are too broke to help out, one day.