The importance of having a degree

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termerair
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by termerair » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:53 am

BDM wrote:One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.
I couldn't agree more...! Very wise statement!

T.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by a340x » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:03 pm

termerair wrote:
BDM wrote:One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.
I couldn't agree more...! Very wise statement!

T.

I second that!
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Zatopec » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:02 pm

istp wrote:Is that a B.A., B.Sc., B. Sc. with a Dmet? B.Asc., B. quoi?
Bachelor of science in aeronautical science with an applied meteorology minor... ça.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by . ._ » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:11 pm

OK, yeah. THAT bachelor combo could get ya some cash. I guess there are a few out there.

I know a dude getting a Dmet at Dalhousie right now. The placement rates out of that program are great. Almost all of the graduates end up at Environment Canada. That's another one that might be OK.

Sorry if I was being a bit of a dick Zatopec, but I just thought other people out there might benefit from more specific info.

-istp :wink:
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Boreas » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:44 pm

Just buy one from India.
BDM wrote:One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.
+3
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Bede » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:36 am

One of the guys who I respected most as a pilot at Jazz has a grade 10 education. The way he explained it, "when guys were in school, I was building seniority". I love that line.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by beast » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:59 am

better hope that guy doesn't lose his medical
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by mattedfred » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:29 am

beast wrote:better hope that guy doesn't lose his medical
If this guy is still at Jazz then he will be fine if he loses his medical.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by LAX » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:33 am

BDM wrote:One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.
Definitely.
Half the stuff I learned in college had nothing to do with school work.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Darkwing Duck » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:22 am

I thought of going straight to a flight school for my CPL and various tickets after. I also thought of going to an aviation college for those same tickets. In the end I thought why waste my time on unneccesarry courses that do not apply to flying. Looking back on it now I realize that I should of went to school for those unneccesary courses and pocket an education. I do not regret my decision. It is just a "what would it of hurt?" thing.

There are alot of people out there who are very wise, succesful and intelligent without any form of education ie high school or university. These people are very good at steet and common sense and just know the in's and out's of life. Then there are people with degrees up the whazoo who cannot think past their nose when it comes to common sense.

Not saying education is bad, I would not want a heart speciallist working on me who took a weekend night course at McGrill University (Not McGill). I am just saying that sometimes experience and common sense get you further in the world then a piece of paper hanging on the wall. I know of a billionaire, self made, who came from a small 1 room house who ran a small furiture factory his father started.

Then again, that piece of paper also lets people know you have the ability to work hard and show you can commit to something for an extended period of time and are willing to learn. To me it comes down to who fits my profile of what I need filled for that vacant position.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Finnegan » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:19 pm

On one hand, someone who has furthered their education shows some determination, willingness to learn, and should be relatively intelligent. On the other hand, I've know 'professional' students whose common sense was severely lacking and had to hire someone to change a light bulb.
Pilots do need to be intelligent, but they also have to possess enough common sense to make good decisions, sometimes very quickly.
I've been responsible in the past for determining whether applicants should or should not be considered. With some, a short conversation is enough. Case in point: First conversation, potential pilot candidate asked, "Have you heard of . Yeager?", to which I replied, "Yes.??....". To which he responded, "Well I'm his protoge". Watched him pretty carefully after that and his arrogance was far superior to his capabilities. Terminated before potentially injuring himself and/or others. Oh, and he was a recent University grad.
By the same token, had another whose flying experience was minimal, but had oodles of experience running heavy equipment. Never once did I see the airplane flying him and he enjoyed a good career.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Finnegan » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:27 pm

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. If you're investing time and stupid money on preparing for a flying career, it is critically important to have a fallback career in the wings. Financially, being an employed pilot is often slightly better than being an unemployed one and when we're young, we'll accept crappy conditions and pay just to get airborne. This is commendable from a love of flying perspective, but it's hard on the wife and kids. (they tend to want to eat and wear clothing, sometimes simultaneously)
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Finnegan » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:54 pm

Just finished reading some more posts and have learned that, as a pilot with 10000+ hours, I am apparently now as good as I'll ever be - I guess it's all downhill from here. I've always been under the impression that I learn something every time I fly. When I listen to other pilots' exploits, I usually learn something - it's often just one more thing a pilot should not do. I've seen 5000 hr pilots do some incredibly stupid things, too. Everyone's different and it's tough to put a number on good, solid experience and capability. 10000 hrs with a couple of violations and a few avoidable crashes doesn't look anywhere near as good as 5000 hours without the crap. And vice versa.
We start developing habits very early in our careers. A lot of these habits are products of our work environment via schedules, peer pressure, etc., whether it be overloading a 185 on floats, declaring a fuel emergency to get in under limits, or, well you get the picture.
Whatever you choose to do with an aviation career, do it with integrity, mindful of safety, and with respect for others. At the end of the day, you'll earn much more respect for refusing to do the wrong thing than for doing the wrong thing and bragging about it.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by xsbank » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:40 am

Going to uni teaches you how to be a critical thinker, to analyze statistical crap and structure an academic paper. Sometimes it teaches you something useful like how to design a network or a bridge. If you are curious about the world, uni might be a way to expose yourself to more of it. If you want to be something special when you grow up, medical or law or engineering schools etc. might be a good idea.

Uni rounds out your life and gives you some self-satisfaction, at least. It also teaches you how to manage money and debt. :shock:

Do what you need to do to float your own boat.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Dockjock » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:22 am

These threads always seem to find a place for those who need to convince themselves that school isn't necessary. To answer the actual question I'll chip in that no, it's not necessary. In fact the requirements to be a commercial pilot in Canada are pathetically basic. What are there, 3 tests? And how many companies running seminars that basically GIVE YOU the answers? So if you're a lowest-common-denominator type, and want to approach your profession with the attitude that less is always more then great. Don't go to school. You are too streetwise for that and you've CRACKED THE CODE! WIN!

Always, always there is the comparison between the hypothetical 5000-hr degree-less underdog pilot "flying bush and off strip" who rises up to smite the smug, self satisfied, white collared but ultimately (despite his degree) ignorant lout whose only apparent skill is flying an ILS on autopilot. Fellas, it's a false construct. There are scores and scores of airline pilots in Canada that did both. Played the underdog, pretended with Buffalo Joe (and his type, they're all over the north...and south for that matter) that they were a good 'ol boy who jes drives a tractor, or likes fishin, or loves nothing more than a hard day's work or whatever. Then, when it comes time to pack up and leave the shithole, they dust off their higher education and join urban society once again with a large airline or something else.

My advice, get the degree or diploma. It will help you. But realize it is viewed with a strange combination of envy and contempt by those who don't have it, and act accordingly when around those people.

/arrogance
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by TopperHarley » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:07 am

Dockjock wrote:These threads always seem to find a place for those who need to convince themselves that school isn't necessary. To answer the actual question I'll chip in that no, it's not necessary. In fact the requirements to be a commercial pilot in Canada are pathetically basic. What are there, 3 tests? And how many companies running seminars that basically GIVE YOU the answers? So if you're a lowest-common-denominator type, and want to approach your profession with the attitude that less is always more then great. Don't go to school. You are too streetwise for that and you've CRACKED THE CODE! WIN!

Always, always there is the comparison between the hypothetical 5000-hr degree-less underdog pilot "flying bush and off strip" who rises up to smite the smug, self satisfied, white collared but ultimately (despite his degree) ignorant lout whose only apparent skill is flying an ILS on autopilot. Fellas, it's a false construct. There are scores and scores of airline pilots in Canada that did both. Played the underdog, pretended with Buffalo Joe (and his type, they're all over the north...and south for that matter) that they were a good 'ol boy who jes drives a tractor, or likes fishin, or loves nothing more than a hard day's work or whatever. Then, when it comes time to pack up and leave the shithole, they dust off their higher education and join urban society once again with a large airline or something else.

My advice, get the degree or diploma. It will help you. But realize it is viewed with a strange combination of envy and contempt by those who don't have it, and act accordingly when around those people.

/arrogance
Very well said.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Bede » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:33 am

beast wrote:better hope that guy doesn't lose his medical
Actually, he'd be fine. Most people with half a brain can do more than one thing reasonably well. In this guy's case he can drive heavy equipment and weld. He actually made all the tow bars for AO back in the day and charged a pretty penny for doing it.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by McJagger » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:48 pm

Dockjock wrote:These threads always seem to find a place for those who need to convince themselves that school isn't necessary. To answer the actual question I'll chip in that no, it's not necessary. In fact the requirements to be a commercial pilot in Canada are pathetically basic. What are there, 3 tests? And how many companies running seminars that basically GIVE YOU the answers? So if you're a lowest-common-denominator type, and want to approach your profession with the attitude that less is always more then great. Don't go to school. You are too streetwise for that and you've CRACKED THE CODE! WIN!

Always, always there is the comparison between the hypothetical 5000-hr degree-less underdog pilot "flying bush and off strip" who rises up to smite the smug, self satisfied, white collared but ultimately (despite his degree) ignorant lout whose only apparent skill is flying an ILS on autopilot. Fellas, it's a false construct. There are scores and scores of airline pilots in Canada that did both. Played the underdog, pretended with Buffalo Joe (and his type, they're all over the north...and south for that matter) that they were a good 'ol boy who jes drives a tractor, or likes fishin, or loves nothing more than a hard day's work or whatever. Then, when it comes time to pack up and leave the shithole, they dust off their higher education and join urban society once again with a large airline or something else.

My advice, get the degree or diploma. It will help you. But realize it is viewed with a strange combination of envy and contempt by those who don't have it, and act accordingly when around those people.

/arrogance
Interesting, running the numbers on the responses on this thread I have come to the conclusion that it is a veritable circle-jerk of an almost fraternal order. The social development, the class envy, proponents of getting a degree... my only two questions are, which one of you is eating the soggy bread? and how do you deal with the hypoxia being so high up in that ivory tower?

I don't find the above quoted post arrogant so much as generally ignorant. Way to perpetuate the stereotype.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by Siddley Hawker » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:53 pm

If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library."
— Frank Zappa
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by stmymdy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:26 am

an education is never a waste
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by mike123 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:27 am

Those who make fun of the educated, belittle higher education and discredit its merits don't have the education to appreciate education. You need a degree to appreciate what it means to have a degree.
Well, I happen to have two degrees and I am fully convinced that many people with degrees are nothing more than educated morons. A degree doesn't make one smarter, intellectual curiosity and the search for knowledge does.
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This is the best comment on this thread.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by mike123 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:40 am

stmymdy wrote:an education is never a waste
Generally true, but a degree in Queer Studies or in Medieval European Literature is hardly useful in the real world. Moreover, someone who has a useful degree, but has been working in another industry (e.g. flying airplanes) will have hard time getting a job 20 years later without any experience. So, I'd say study something related to aviation or at the very least business management, otherwise don't waste your time now, but make sure you put some money aside in case you loose your medical and you need to learn another profession.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by stmymdy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:53 pm

mike123 wrote:Well, I happen to have two degrees and I am fully convinced that many people with degrees are nothing more than educated morons
mike123 wrote:Generally true, but a degree in Queer Studies or in Medieval European Literature is hardly useful in the real world
just curious, but what are your 2 degrees in? queer studies and medieval european literature?

i agree, that having a degree doesn't make a moron any less a moron,
but there are advantages to having a degree. some on the smartest people
i know are educated in philosophy which is basically a degree in the search for knowledge and wisdom.
which would likely do f-all for aviation, but a smart person is typically better at anything than a dumbass
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Last edited by stmymdy on Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by mike123 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:45 pm

stmymdy wrote:just curious, but what are your 2 degrees in? queer studies and medieval european literature?
Engineering and Business Administration.

I have a friend who had a Bachelor degree in French Literature and spent about 10 years selling some crap over the phone and being a substitute teacher a few times a year until he went back to school in his late 30s.
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Re: The importance of having a degree

Post by mamba » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:05 am

Thanks for the replies guys, sorry for the late post.

I've read similar topics on pprune, so I guess it turns out that there are no right or wrong way about this, everyone has its own path with its own choices. For me the best would be to do both (degree and flight training at the same time if that's ever possible).

If you have other comments regarding this subject, post it. :wink:

See ya.
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