The importance of having a degree

[planett]

I read works by Noam Chomsky, Carl Sagan, Peter D Ward, and Tony Kern to name a few. The Economist was productive reading for a business newspaper. Keep the mind working and stereotypes challenged.
BTW, if you have a degree, don't include it on your resume for entry level jobs in this business, it'll probably hurt you more than it helps. With some marketable experience, you can roll out the degree for the better jobs.

[complexintentions]

The biggest advantage conferred by the top tier Ivy League degrees, is the ability to form connections within the power and moneyed elite by attending there. One does not go to Harvard or Yale to get letters after their name, they go to land positions at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan et all through the network of wealth. The high cost of admission is for that reason alone, not for a degree. YYZSlob guy's own tedious list only helps to strengthen that point.

But judging by the quality of the posts, I highly doubt that this forum is heavily frequented by Harvard applicants. And the point here is the relevance of a degree to becoming a pilot, FFS. Last I checked Jamie Dimon wasn't flying airplanes for a living.

Turns out it's all random anyway, as I've always suspected...

The Dirty Secret About Success

[photofly]

Actually, that’s a really dangerous and untrue conspiracy theory.

One does not go to Harvard or Yale to get letters after their name

“One” goes to get a damn good education, of which the letters are just a badge.

This thread is like listening to a lot of basement flight simmers espousing expertly on how to fly a B747. You really should stick to topics about which you have some experience.

[rookiepilot]

Actually, that’s a really dangerous and untrue conspiracy theory.

One does not go to Harvard or Yale to get letters after their name

“One” goes to get a damn good education, of which the letters are just a badge.

This thread is like listening to a lot of basement flight simmers espousing expertly on how to fly a B747. You really should stick to topics about which you have some experience.

Tell us more from your own extensive experience.

[rookiepilot]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada- ... -1.4579205

"Second Closet is an online storage startup where customers use a website to schedule a pickup so their belongings can be stored at the company's warehouse. Another online booking brings their stuff back when it's needed.

The founder, 22-year-old Mark Ang of Toronto, was inspired to start the business because of his own need for storage. "My brother and I had moved out, and we had a very tiny condo. I honestly just needed a second closet," Ang said.

Mark Ang
Second Closet founder Mark Ang charges by the size of the items that need storage. He says customers that rent entire lockers end up paying for wasted space. (CBC News)

Despite their age, the two brothers managed to raise $500,000 from investors and launched the business last year. Now with five trucks and 25 employees, Second Closet is growing quickly, adding about 100 new customers a month. Some are storing items as small as a bankers box, for $3 per month (plus a flat rate delivery charge of $25)."

I admire these kids, or the one who worked in the patch for 5 years, more than peeps getting a liberal arts degree at York, while living off mommys wallet.

Which path, even if this business fails, would grant more invaluable experience for the rest of ones life?

[HansDietrich]

The biggest advantage conferred by the top tier Ivy League degrees, is the ability to form connections within the power and moneyed elite by attending there. One does not go to Harvard or Yale to get letters after their name, they go to land positions at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan et all through the network of wealth. The high cost of admission is for that reason alone, not for a degree. YYZSlob guy's own tedious list only helps to strengthen that point.

But judging by the quality of the posts, I highly doubt that this forum is heavily frequented by Harvard applicants. And the point here is the relevance of a degree to becoming a pilot, FFS. Last I checked Jamie Dimon wasn't flying airplanes for a living.

Turns out it's all random anyway, as I've always suspected...

The Dirty Secret About Success

No kidding! (about Harvard degree holders being on this forum)

The question here was never "is it good to have a degree?" The real question is "Importance of a degree being a pilot" and "Does it make you a better pilot?". For the most part, we all agree that having a degree (did that rhyme?) has very little bearing on your ability or skill as a pilot. The REAL issue here is that a lot of talented, experienced pilots are being passed over by mainline or other carriers in favor for a mediocre or less experienced pilots with some BS degree (Not to be confused with "Bachelor of Science") in Arts.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think my thousands of hours, northern experience, PIC etc should be the factor in deciding whether or not I get a job, not my degree. I have an engineering degree and aside from making it easier for me to understand certain aircraft systems I really don't see a relevance. It didn't help me study or understand the rest of the courses better, it didn't make me fly a raw data NDB approach better, it didn't make me a better decision maker finding my alternates.

It also didn't make me look "smarter" on this form. A lot of people here think I'm a moron. That's probably because of my old European ways, of being direct and outspoken, while trying to be funny.

[rookiepilot]

of being direct and outspoken, while trying to be funny.

Being direct and outspoken isn't always appreciated in Canada, it seems.

[photofly]

I have no idea why you stay in this country that you hate so much. You certainly don’t pass up any opportunity to bitch about and badmouth it.

[trey kule]

In looking at pilot applicants, subsequent hires, and line pilots, generally a university education does initially seem to make a difference.
One...it isually means the applicants are a bit older, and that is a good thing. I realize it is not PC to talk about age, but over 25s seem to be much more mature and less prone to doing something stupid in the plane . That being said, 5 years or so of non aviation work experience seems to be the equivelent

Two. In todays airlines, the learning in ground school is intense. Well there are obviousy exceptions, generally those with advanced education are able to better absorb and learn from reading ( note..I said there were exceptions ..both ways)

In one of the flight colleges, at least years ago, a required class was calculus. How important was that to being a pilot? Actually , quite a bit as it turns out, as most students had to really buckle down and work at it until one day the lightbulb went on

A degree is nothing more than official accreditation of one’s achievement.

Unless you worked for Orange...then it just meant you were part of the liars’ club..

[digits_]

In one of the flight colleges, at least years ago, a required class was calculus. How important was that to being a pilot? Actually , quite a bit as it turns out, as most students had to really buckle down and work at it until one day the lightbulb went on

If you see the trouble some cpl pilots have with converting minutes to the decimal system, I am not surprised

[YYZSaabGuy]

The biggest advantage conferred by the top tier Ivy League degrees, is the ability to form connections within the power and moneyed elite by attending there. One does not go to Harvard or Yale to get letters after their name, they go to land positions at Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan et all through the network of wealth. The high cost of admission is for that reason alone, not for a degree. YYZSlob guy's own tedious list only helps to strengthen that point.

But judging by the quality of the posts, I highly doubt that this forum is heavily frequented by Harvard applicants. And the point here is the relevance of a degree to becoming a pilot, FFS. Last I checked Jamie Dimon wasn't flying airplanes for a living.

Turns out it's all random anyway, as I've always suspected...

The Dirty Secret About Success

Ahahahaha name-calling from a guy who can't find his pants or his white male privilege membership card? Priceless.

Look, try and keep up: I know critical thinking isn't your strong point, but at least make an effort. That 400-word list that caused you such grief was a response to claims that formal education doesn't count for much in the finance industry, and that Harvard grads work in mailrooms. Both of which are obviously nonsensical. Honestly, I shouldn't have to explain this stuff to you.

Watching you extrapolate from that into a Captain Obvious statement that Jamie Dimon doesn't fly airplanes for a living was......interesting, although I question the relevance. Another logic fail.

Then again, you think that the world is all about connections, "the network of wealth" (whatever that is), and good luck, which I guess explains a lot. Rationalize much?

[goldeneagle]

Tell us more from your own extensive experience.

This is a good point. Just how many part time or full time pilots have you hired over the years rookie ? How many do you think you will be hiring over the next 5 or 10 years ?

As an apparent expert on the subject, how much time have you spent hiring pilots in a small operation where it's usually a single person making the decisions, or conversly, in a selection committee for a larger operation where selections are typically made by a group of folks.

I haven't hired a lot of pilots over my career in aviation, maybe 30 or 40 total over the years I held the CP hat. In most cases, we had a selection committee comprised of two folks, me and the company owner. I'm curious about your depth of experience in this area.

One thing about AvCanada, often a lot of bluster from folks around the 'If only I was in charge, things would be different' style of mantra. It usually comes from folks who are not, and never will be in the decision maker's seat.

[rookiepilot]

Tell us more from your own extensive experience.

This is a good point. Just how many part time or full time pilots have you hired over the years rookie ? How many do you think you will be hiring over the next 5 or 10 years ?

As an apparent expert on the subject, how much time have you spent hiring pilots in a small operation where it's usually a single person making the decisions, or conversly, in a selection committee for a larger operation where selections are typically made by a group of folks.

I haven't hired a lot of pilots over my career in aviation, maybe 30 or 40 total over the years I held the CP hat. In most cases, we had a selection committee comprised of two folks, me and the company owner. I'm curious about your depth of experience in this area.

One thing about AvCanada, often a lot of bluster from folks around the 'If only I was in charge, things would be different' style of mantra. It usually comes from folks who are not, and never will be in the decision maker's seat.

You're on a roll, Golden Eagle.

Troll me on 2 different threads.

Hiring principles -- Do cross industry boundaries, you know?

[C.W.E.]

Stop digging your hole deeper rookie, I know Goldeneagle personally and he knows the aviation business very well and I would trust his opinion regarding hiring pilots any day.

[rookiepilot]

Stop digging your hole deeper rookie, I know Goldeneagle personally and he knows the aviation business very well and I would trust his opinion regarding hiring pilots any day.

No where did I say he didn't, or that I have ever said it is my role to hire pilots. Sorry for everyone's confusion.

The principles of hiring individuals do actually cross industries, you know --

I simply admired the individual, and his perseverance in pursuing a dream, on the other thread who worked 5 years in the oil patch to fund his training, and commented as such.

Should I have not done this?

Personally, I consider perseverance through adversity to complete a goal, a strong character trait for any individual, especially in one starting out their career.

Obviously some may choose to disagree, and favour completion of, say a liberal arts degree instead as more valuable.

[trey kule]

Sometimes we ask the wrong questions and it leads us down the wrong path.

In looking at pilots, in general, maturity, experience, and the ability to work well with others are key factors in hiring. Everyone seems to focus on the tangables like flight time, time on type, education. It is not that they are not important, but seldom are a deciding factor in hiring as long as minimums are met.
The University degree or similar post secondary training is but one factor, though some companies consider it a critical one.

So how important is it really? All other factors considered it is a very lightbweight to carry in your pocket.

Personally, I find some of the aviation diploma college courses to be of little value in terms of how a pilot will work out. Same with being a great stick and rudders pilot. A person is the sum of everything, and a strong area does not compensate for a critical weakness in others.

[rookiepilot]

I have no idea why you stay in this country that you hate so much. You certainly don’t pass up any opportunity to bitch about and badmouth it.

I do not like the direction this country is going. I consider our leadership at the provincial and federal level to be abysmal-- regardless of ones politics.

Many, many people agree with this. Editorials on Both sides of the spectrum are slamming the federal government for their leadership, or lack of it.

7 out of 10 premiers, I read yesterday, have a lower approval rating than Trump does.

Do you disagree, and feel the country is on a strong path, Photofly?

[rookiepilot]

I did not get an answer, Photofly.

Your premier is disliked by 81% of voters.


https://globalnews.ca/news/4099335/kath ... mier-poll/

Do you think they are all wrong?

You effectively run an Ontario based business. If people with money leave, doesn't help you.

How about Federal?

Is this what you and Goldeneagle consider "strong leadership" in this country, from your "vast" business experience?

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... icism.html

People are noticing. About time.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/03/1 ... _23389524/

https://www.washingtonpost.com

Let's not get started on the BC - AB spat.



To answer your question, I love this country, and it makes me sick what is happening to it.

[photofly]

That may be true, but it’s still the case that most of your complaints are targeted at your fellow Canadians and Canadian society in general, not at Canadian leaders and politicians.

To be honest, I think now that I’ve pointed it out, you’ll cut down on it.

Won’t you?

[rookiepilot]

That may be true, but it’s still the case that most of your complaints are targeted at your fellow Canadians and Canadian society in general, not at Canadian leaders and politicians.

To be honest, I think now that I’ve pointed it out, you’ll cut down on it.

Won’t you?

Yes, I will try. Doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

Though it was people, many smart folks with degrees, who elected and re elected a premier like Wynne. Leadership is only a reflection of people's choices, so when we disagree with our leaders, better look in the mirror......

A degree doesn't necessarily equal common sense, it would seem ---