Jazz & CPA

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Brize
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Jazz & CPA

Post by Brize »

AC's deal with SkyRegional........

I think this will be the beginning of the end for Jazz Air by 2015-2020. I'm willing to guess Jazz will loose it's much unappreciated CPA with AC.
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flyincanuck
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by flyincanuck »

So...I shouldn't buy Chorus Aviation Inc shares?

:rolleyes:
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Stinky
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by Stinky »

I think the whole point of the Sky Regional deal is to diversify operations, not use a new regional to kill of the old one, what would be the point of that?

I agree that Jazz will likely see some of their flying shifted over to Sky Regional but if AC increases the amount of flying they outsource Jazz might not lose much. It could be made up with Thomas Cook, charters and maybe even wet leases to Pluna.

I think AC pilots should be more worried than Jazz pilots.
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madcapmagition
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by madcapmagition »

Its also up to skyregional to meet the expectations that AC has in terms of otp, flight completion, customer service, etc...

if they blow that, then Jazz has the opportunity to shine.
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airmech07
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by airmech07 »

Stinky wrote:I think the whole point of the Sky Regional deal is to diversify operations, not use a new regional to kill of the old one, what would be the point of that?

I agree that Jazz will likely see some of their flying shifted over to Sky Regional but if AC increases the amount of flying they outsource Jazz might not lose much. It could be made up with Thomas Cook, charters and maybe even wet leases to Pluna.

I think AC pilots should be more worried than Jazz pilots.

I totally agree with this...I can definintetly see our operation shifting to bigger aircraft also. You have to remember this is the start of Thomas Cook Canada and they need someone to operate in Canada for them. Also if you look at our fleet of aircraft; we are slowly getting rid of the aircraft that are leased from Air Canada. Our q400's will be owned by Jazz (chorus) or whatever you call them. Unlike sky regional who is operated q400's that are leased from air canada. As a Jazz employee in yyz...I think it can only go up from here.
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~Hollywood~
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by ~Hollywood~ »

I wouldn't be surprised to see CMA and/or GGN doing some Tier II flying in the near future also....
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by Localizer »

1. This should be under the "Jazz" topic ..

2. This is above everyone's pay-grade .. and those that play armchair CEO are never right. So the point of this thread .. other then it being someone's opinion to no doubt "stir the pot" .. is pointless.

Enjoy your weekend.
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Brize
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by Brize »

No, You are wrong Loc.

1. This affects more than just Jazz employees.

2. Peoples opinions are important and this is not as you so condescendingly put it, "below our pay grade."

-----

Thank you for the useful insight from those that have posted above the last post. I have to agree, the expectations of SkyRegional are high, but they are not impossible to attain with a fresh bright and motivated workforce. Could be a plus, could be a minus..Porter is a good example of it being a good thing.

In the short term, there is no point and it makes no sense to "kill" Jazz. To give it a wakeup call like AC has. Well, there is a point to that and I hope it worked. In the long term, it does make sense for AC to kill 50-75% of Jazz.
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teacher
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by teacher »

Don't forget though if AC moves to cancel the CPA they now face a competitor. I anticipate that AC will try to diversify to save a few bucks and/or pressure Jazz in lowering it's costs (bu-bye crazy dividends). With 125 aircraft under the CPA and the sky's the limit for charter aircraft I don't see Jazz going anywhere soon. Besides, someone mentioned on another thread that it would look VERY VERY bad if not border line illegal for AC to set up a company, sell the shares at a profit than dump it as a provider after it has divested itself and made the money. Of course, in 2020 I'm sure enough time will have passed.
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by Localizer »

Brize wrote:No, You are wrong Loc.

1. This affects more than just Jazz employees.

2. Peoples opinions are important and this is not as you so condescendingly put it, "below our pay grade."

-----

Thank you for the useful insight from those that have posted above the last post. I have to agree, the expectations of SkyRegional are high, but they are not impossible to attain with a fresh bright and motivated workforce. Could be a plus, could be a minus..Porter is a good example of it being a good thing.

In the short term, there is no point and it makes no sense to "kill" Jazz. To give it a wakeup call like AC has. Well, there is a point to that and I hope it worked. In the long term, it does make sense for AC to kill 50-75% of Jazz.
1. Affects more then just Jazz employee's ... True, but I never said it only affected Jazz.

2. Enlighten me how you think peoples opinions are going to change the way a corporation does business. Do you think Air Canada, Jazz, and Sky Regional CEO's turn to AvCanada in order to get a pulse on the opinions of the minions (that rhymes by the way) that work under them? .. Do you think that your pay-grade as a line pilot puts you at the helm when it comes to steering corporate direction? ... NO ... thus the reason our opinion's on the matter mean nothing in the end.

That doesn't mean you're not allowed to express them .. but I get the sense that this thread was directed more towards giving Jazz pilots doubt to their future employment .. hence your comment about killing 50-75% of Jazz.

I hope this future "fresh, bright and motivated workforce" has no problem doing all this for the current compensation package being offered. The "new airplane" thing wears out quick when you can't pay the bills, or you only see your child's face 10 days a month. (Unless you enjoy seeing them via Skype)

Loc
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by modi13 »

I very much doubt Air Canada is going to try to expand Sky Regional into a national competitor for Jazz and end the CPA. There are huge hurdles involved in starting a carrier from the ground up; it would be a massive leap to go from 5 aircraft flying YTZ-YOW and YTZ-YUL to 122 aircraft operating across the country from four hubs. I may be entirely wrong, but I imagine AC choosing not to use QK to operate into YTZ has something to do with the operating agreement signed with the TPA; there may be a clause specifying that AC can't operate the flights under contract to any existing carrier, or some other requirement that excludes Jazz. If that's the case, they would have to set up a subsidiary, but they did so with Skyservice BAS to keep it at arms length.
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by aviator2010 »

I very much doubt Air Canada is going to try to expand Sky Regional into a national competitor for Jazz and end the CPA. There are huge hurdles involved in starting a carrier from the ground up; it would be a massive leap to go from 5 aircraft flying YTZ-YOW and YTZ-YUL to 122 aircraft operating across the country from four hubs.
your right I mean they only have 9 years to work with and they own how many of those 122 airplanes and can take them at any point. besides what's 1 or 2 cents per ASM really mean as far as real dollars and cents. If I was a Jazz employee I wouldn't worry I have a union that just signed a career contract right!
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by teacher »

aviator2010 wrote:and they own how many of those 122 airplanes
.

Actually Jazz owns many of those aircraft including the 15-30 Q400s on the way which are replacing AC owned CRJs Terminating an aircraft lease to sink a company might be considered a little unethical in the business world don't yah think.
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by aviator2010 »

Terminating an aircraft lease to sink a company might be considered a little unethical in the business world don't yah think.
your right airline execs are knowen to be the most ethical individuals in the world and I'm sure those at Air Canada give a f#@k about the long term fiscal health of Jazz and all it's employees.
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by genetic jack hammer »

aviator2010 wrote:
Terminating an aircraft lease to sink a company might be considered a little unethical in the business world don't yah think.
your right airline execs are knowen to be the most ethical individuals in the world and I'm sure those at Air Canada give a f#@k about the long term fiscal health of Jazz and all it's employees.
You're right, and i'm sure that those same execs give a f#@k about the long term fiscal health of AC and all it's employees too!
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Brize
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by Brize »

I hope this future "fresh, bright and motivated workforce" has no problem doing all this for the current compensation package being offered. The "new airplane" thing wears out quick when you can't pay the bills, or you only see your child's face 10 days a month. (Unless you enjoy seeing them via Skype)
You're right, it really wore off for our friends south of the border. They're probably buying skype credits faster than KD. I think it would be naive Air Canada, Jazz, and Sky Regional CEO's, etc would be anything but lower their operating costs and it seems more importantly risk. The near possibility of a Jazz strike almost put AC to a grinding halt, emotions aside, I'm sure they would be looking to limit their exposure the next time around. It started with SkyRegional. I hope for nothing but the opposite. I'm simply sharing my opinions on the direction I think they CEO & board of directors of AC will go. I never said I liked it.

The "huge" hurdles are really not that big, and time is on their hands. We are our own worst enemies and I'm sure we'll even find a way to help this unfortunate cause.

It's not about "sinking" Jazz, nothing to do with TC flying or any other emotional reason we may dream up. It will be about limiting risk, lowering cost and just doing business just dirty enough to get away with it on a positive spin.
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teacher
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Re: Jazz & CPA

Post by teacher »

Hey "Brize", as much as I hate to admit it you're right on the money that it's about the money and nothing else.
aviator2010 wrote:your right airline execs are knowen to be the most ethical individuals in the world and I'm sure those at Air Canada give a f#@k about the long term fiscal health of Jazz and all it's employees.
Terminating an aircraft lease to sink a company might be considered a little unethical in the business world don't yah think.
your right airline execs are knowen to be the most ethical individuals in the world and I'm sure those at Air Canada give a f#@k about the long term fiscal health of Jazz and all it's employees.
Very true, airline execs are probably as bad as they come however being hauled into court or be questioned by regulators is no laughing matter either.
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