F-35 looking more like white elephant

[Diadem]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... ng-nicely/

[Dash-Ate]

[W5]

Norway commits to F-35

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... rt-373063/

Add:

http://www.wingsmagazine.com/content/view/7251/155/

[Big Pistons Forever]

Norway commits to F-35

Actually what happened was Norway commits to the F-35 only on the condition that Lockheed integrate a made in Norway missile into the airplane . So in other words they forced Lockheed to guarantee a major industrial offset, something that Lockheed tried mightily to avoid. That would IMO make them smarter than us because the current purchase proposal does not require Lockheed to spend one cent in Canada.

Setting aside the issue of whether or not the F 35 is the right airplane for Canada, we should be still be getting the best deal possible. In fact every foreign deal so far has better terms then what we have on out intent to purchase...........

[Expat]

So the worlds mightiest industrial power has been working on a stealth fighter for almost 15 years and is still having trouble making it work but the Chinese are going to field one in 6 years......Give me a break

The only way the Chinese are going to get a true operationally stealthy gen five fighter in the next 15 to 20 years is if they buy American.

Besides if he Chinese truly want to defeat the US they don't need to use Military power they just have to stop buying US treasury notes and investing in US companies.
China and the US are now in a place of Monetary Mutually Assured Destruction. A war between the two would so devastate each others economies it simply isn't a credible scenario.

From any report available on the net, the Chinese are better students in physics, math, and science. It will catch up one day...

[126.7_STFU]

From any report available on the net, the Chinese are better students in physics, math, and science. It will catch up one day...

Just because their culture is exploiting the west does not mean they are "better" at anything.

I guess that means Jeremy Hansen must secretly be Chinese alongside numerous others.

What's with all the race based posts and empty positions lately? What would happen if I said white men pioneered the industrial age? Quite scandalous don't you think expat?

[Expat]

White men were almost extinct from the 4th century, after the fall of Rome, until the 15th. What brought them back was the Turkish and Ottoman empires.

[Expat]

When I bought my first car in 1972, a Toyota Corolla, a lot of people laughed. One of them, a friend, whose father owned a big Pontiac franchise, which went under in 1982.

[126.7_STFU]

Correction then: Technological age.

[2R]

White men were almost extinct from the 4th century, after the fall of Rome, until the 15th. What brought them back was the Turkish and Ottoman empires.

The last Caesar was from Libya.
Out of Africa,will history repeat itself again.
Waiting quietly for the other shoe to drop.

[Expat]

White men were almost extinct from the 4th century, after the fall of Rome, until the 15th. What brought them back was the Turkish and Ottoman empires.

The last Caesar was from Libya.
Out of Africa,will history repeat itself again.
Waiting quietly for the other shoe to drop.

And the last POTUS was from?...nobody knows...

[W5]

The Dutch parliament (2nd Chamber- lower house) has just voted in favour of a motion to leave the JSF program (F-35). Just reported on the website of ''De Telegraaf'' national newspaper.

[YYZSaabGuy]

A rather downbeat F-35 update from a recent issue of Flightglobal:

"Senior F-35 official warns on software breakdowns, relationship crisis 17 Sep 2012
The future of the Lockheed Martin F-35 programme is at risk over software concerns and a breakdown in the relationships between the contractor and the government, says the deputy chief of the F-35 joint programme office (JPO).

"There is no more money and no more time on this programme," Maj Gen Christopher Bogdan told reporters at the Air Force Association convention. "We will not go back and ask for more, simple as that."

Bogdan's comments covered a wide range of concerns, but he focused on the status of software development. In particular, he warned that the autonomic logistics information system (ALIS) - the nerve centre for F-35 maintenance and sustainment all over the world - is falling dangerously behind schedule.

While ALIS has been in works for several years, security issues with software have required a new approach. The new system, version 1.03, is currently in testing that is expected to be completed in November. The US Marine Corps, one of the primary customers of the aircraft, is planning to deploy short take-off and vertical landing F-35Bs to its training base in Yuma, Arizona, but without a certified and functional ALIS system, the aircraft are essentially inoperable.

Some F-35s have been fully constructed by Lockheed, but the US Air Force has not accepted them for delivery "because there's no point unless ALIS works," says Bogdan. "If we don't get ALIS right, we are not flying aircraft."

Software is another sticking point. The aircraft has over 10 million lines of code that it requires to function. While Lockheed has "made some tactical progress" on fixing software issues, installing and operating the complex Block 3 software remains the largest hurdle, and one that Bogdan says has greatest risk of causing programme delay.

Though technical problems put a crimp in the programme, Bogdan says that the relationship between Lockheed, the JPO and stakeholders is "the worst I have ever seen, and I've seen a lot of bad ones. It should not take 10, 11, 12 months to negotiate a contract we've been working with for 10 years," he adds. "I think that's the biggest threat to the programme today. If we do not improve the day-to-day relationship, this will not work."

Bogdan stressed the complexity of developing, testing, building and flying the aircraft at the same time, citing competing priorities from each stakeholder.

"I am seeing some glimmers of hope in Lockheed Martin's production," he says. However, the company "should be, but [isn't], ahead of the learning curve," and production efficiencies are not being translated into lower cost to the government. Bogdan says he expects Lockheed to pass savings on.

Lockheed had no immediate comment, but says it will release a statement soon."

[cdnpilot77]

U.S. Air Force sticking to plans to buy 1,763 F-35 jets

By Andrea Shalal-Esa | Reuters – 14 hrs ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force affirmed on Thursday its plans to buy 1,763 F-35 fighter jets built by Lockheed Martin Corp in coming years, as Lockheed and the government neared agreement on a multi-billion dollar contract for a fifth batch of planes.

Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told an investor conference that the service remained committed to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which alone accounts for 15 percent of the service's annual investment spending, and had no plans to revise its projected purchase of 1,763 of the new radar-evading jets.

"I don't think there's any reason to revisit that anytime in the near future," Donley told the Credit Suisse conference, underscoring his support for the Pentagon's biggest weapons program.

He said it was not feasible to consider cutting orders or make other major changes to the $396 billion F-35 program, which has already been restructured three times in recent years to allow more time for technology development and to save money.

The Pentagon is looking closely at every aspect of its budget given mounting pressure to cut defense spending, and programs as large as the F-35 are always potential targets.

But Lockheed executives argue that the Defense Department has already reduced production of the new plane sharply from projected levels, cutting into the economies of scale that were supposed to make the new warplane more affordable.

Donley said he had heard proposals about cutting F-35 purchases to save money for other priorities, but said such ideas did not make sense at this point in the program.

"These are good theoretical discussions, but when you look at where we are in the program, it makes no sense to have these discussions until about 2025," Donley said. "There is nothing in the near-term about this program that will change; there is nothing that it will contribute to deficit reduction in the next ten years with the exception of its cancellation."

And cancellation of the program, he said, was something no one would recommend.

Donley said the U.S. government was "getting close" to an agreement with Lockheed about a fifth batch of F-35 jets.

Lockheed President Marillyn Hewson told the conference earlier on Thursday that talks with the Pentagon - which have been under way for about a year - were going well and an agreement was likely before the end of the year.

"Those negotiations are progressing well," she said at her first major presentation to Wall Street investors since being named Lockheed president and chief operating officer earlier this month. "I do feel confident that we're going to get to closure on Lot 5 this year," she said.

Lockheed and the Pentagon were also making progress in talks about additional funding for early work on the sixth batch of F-35 jets, said Hewson. She will become Lockheed's CEO in January, succeeding Christopher Kubasik, who was forced out after admitting to having an affair with a subordinate.

Lockheed Chief Financial Officer Bruce Tanner said Hewson had played a key role in the company's talks with the Pentagon, and the two sides had "closed a lot of our differences."

Details of the expected agreement were not immediately available, but sources familiar with the negotiations said they expected it to include a reduction in the cost for each F-35 fighter jet from the fourth production contract, although the number of jets to be ordered will not increase.

The Pentagon's chief weapons buyer, Frank Kendall, told Reuters on Wednesday that the two sides were "getting close" to an agreement on the fifth production contract.

He said he had "a very positive meeting" on Tuesday with Hewson about a range of issues, including the F-35.

Lockheed, the Pentagon's largest contractor, and its suppliers are already building the fifth batch of F-35 planes under a preliminary contract, but the two sides have been struggling since last December to finalize the deal.

In September, Air Force Major General Christopher Bogdan, who is moving up to head the F-35 program next week, said ties between Lockheed and the U.S. government were "the worst" he had ever seen in his years working on big acquisition programs.

Hewson told analysts earlier this month that the F-35 program would be one of her top priorities in her new job.

Agreement on the terms of the fifth F-35 contract would free up additional funding for early work on a sixth set of planes, which the company has been funding on its own for some time.

Lockheed last month told investors that it faced a potential termination liability of $1.1 billion on that sixth batch of planes, unless it received more funds soon.

The Pentagon has refused to release any more money for the sixth batch of planes until the two sides resolve their differences and sign a contract for the fifth batch.

(Reporting By Andrea Shalal-Esa; Editing by Gerald E. McCormick, John Wallace and Tim Dobbyn)

http://news.yahoo.com/u-air-force-stick ... nance.html

[xysn]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/23 ... t-sources/

OTTAWA – The Conservative government will signal it is serious about buying an alternative to the F-35 fighter jet by asking rival manufacturers about the cost and availability of their planes, according to defence industry sources.

The formal request for information will be issued to rivals like Boeing, which produces the Superhornet, and the consortium that makes the Eurofighter Typhoon, asking them what jets are available, and at what cost, if the Canadian government decides to ditch the trouble-plagued F-35 purchase.

The pricing and availability information request falls short of a formal tender but government sources said the “market analysis” will send a signal to voters and industry that it is taking seriously the Auditor-General’s spring report that was heavily critical of the F-35 procurement process.

Some industry experts have suggested that technological advances may make stealth obsolete within a relatively short space of time. If the government has accepted that thinking, it may decide to open up any competition to aircraft without stealth capability.

[boeingboy]

Is it possible they are just trying to cram too much into the F-35?

Wonder if it would be possible to put less software into it and still have it be a very capible aircraft?

[iflyforpie]

Hmmm..... seems like another fighter pilot agrees that the F-35 is far from the only choice for Canada's defence.

Canada's new chief of defence staff has contradicted Defence Minister Peter MacKay by suggesting that other fighter jets do offer some of the stealth capabilities the military needs.

Tom Lawson said during testimony Thursday before the Commons defence committee about the planned $25-billion purchase that most fighter jets offer some degree of stealth capability, including Canada's aging fleet of CF-18s.

Boeing's Super Hornet and the Eurofighter Typhoon have been suggested as alternatives to Lockheed Martin's F-35, which until now appeared to be the only fighter jet Canada was considering.

"It's the only fifth-generation, stealth aircraft that meets Canada's needs," MacKay told reporters as recently as last March.

"There are countries around the world flying the [other aircraft with stealth capabilities] to great success these days," Lawson told MPs on Thursday.

Lawson, himself a former fighter pilot, downplayed the importance of Canada buying a so-called "fifth generation" aircraft. The marketing classification "fifth generation" is used in the United States to signify aircraft with the latest technology as of 2012, including advanced stealth capabilities.

"Fourth and fifth generation is not a very helpful way of looking at that aircraft," Lawson told reporters in a scrum after his testimony.

The purchase of 65 F-35 aircraft was first announced in 2010. But the costs have risen significantly from the $9-billion price tag offered at the time.

After first Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page and then Auditor General Michael Ferguson sounded the alarm over discrepancies in the calculated costs, Rona Ambrose's Public Works Department was put in charge of the fighter jet procurement process.

Part of that review includes evaluating alternatives to the F-35. The military's original statement of requirements for the purchase included some level of stealth capability, but not a particular, "necessary" element of stealth, Lawson said.

Lawson said that while other fighter jets offer an "element" of stealth capability, the F-35 is "better."

But when asked by Liberal defence critic John McKay whether there is only one airplane that can meet the standard of stealth set out in the Canadian military's requirements, Lawson said "no."

"All options are on the table," Lawson told MPs.

That appears to put him at odds with MacKay's claim that only the F-35 meets the requirements to replace the CF-18.

"It is the only plane that can fill the requirement laid out in Canada First Defence Strategy," MacKay told the defence committee in September 2010.

In question period Friday, Ambrose's parliamentary secretary, Jacques Gourde, was taking the opposition's questions on the F-35 procurement.

Speaking in French, he maintained that the seven-point plan being implemented by Public Works for the procurement includes an analysis of "all the options to replace the CF-18."

The defence minister's spokesman, Jay Paxton, says this seven-point plan "includes an analysis of all options to replace the CF-18 that will not be constrained by the [military's earlier] statement of requirements."

"The options analysis is a full evaluation of choices, not simply a refresh of the work that was done before," Paxton says.

Gourde said the Public Works Department is "taking time to do things correctly" and would not say when KPMG, which won a contract worth more than $600,000 to study the cost of the F-35, will finish its work and issue its report.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/f-35-not-only- ... 15798.html