AVCANADA

In all the roles outside of our airspace they have exhibited excellent service in the support role we are usually tasked with. In sofar as protecting Northern Airspace, hell they could track those old russion Big Bears with fricken Cessnas as they are runnin so slow to conserve fuel.

In sofar as protecting Northern Airspace, hell they could track those old russion Big Bears with fricken Cessnas as they are runnin so slow to conserve fuel.

And whats with using a single engine fighter in remote areas like our North .

They don't currently have the appropriate in flite refueling figured out yet,

These short range Albatrosses have way to many other problems still to sort out along with unbelieveable cost overruns.

Hell by 2020 manned fighters will likely be replaced with manless equipment anyway. Its the same mindless people who bought those British yard sale Subs.

Whats wrong with puttin all that money to work in Canada instead of givin it to the fricken Americans for bunch of flyin Edsels we can't use.

The F18 was an obvious choice for Canadas needs in the past and could be for the future considering that Canada needs the multi role capability that the 18 offers.

Actually the F-15 won the competition they held but they settled for the F-18 due to budget constraints.

Incorrect. The F-14, F-15 and the rest of the European offerings were dropped because of the high price. There were three left, two versions of the F-18 and the F-16.

Whats wrong with puttin all that money to work in Canada instead of givin it to the fricken Americans for bunch of flyin Edsels we can't use.

I doubt you'll see an Unmanned Fighter by 2020.

I can't really see the point in arguing about this anymore since the Conservatives are going to waste our money regardless of what common sense says...

But, I really think you're wrong on this one, Aux.
Check this out:
[youtube]tH_PxXNREgg[/youtube]
http://youtu.be/tH_PxXNREgg

Ten months of additional testing should drive down the abort rate, give engineers time to fix technical flaws and make the F-35As safe for new pilots, Gilmore advised. But a training delay could push the date of the JSF’s combat readiness even farther into the future. Already, the jack-of-all-trades warplane is around five years behind the original schedule, severely disrupting the Pentagon’s plans for replacing its 1980s-vintage F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s.

I still think we can't afford to spend that kinda of money plain and simple lets live with refitted f18s spend some money on the the rest of our military for the much needed updates. Let the americans waste money on the front line aircraft and put the money to work in more appropriate directions. Its not like the Russians are gonna attack and besides our allies would help if there was any aggression in the north. We have a capable and well respected military and have proved that time and time again with the various campaigns over the years. Why not use common sense use the money in Canada instead of giving it to the Americans. Look at the plans in place for the ship building that make real sense. We are very good at doing disaster support and there is no shortage of help needed out there. Let our military provide the aid need throughout the world a far more noble and valid endeaver.

I guess you don't need insurance on your house until you have a fire huh. The ability to protect our airspace is crucial to our sovereignty. Otherwise, other people will enforce their sovereignty on our airspace.

We also need to be able to project power. As part of alliances, we have commitments to fulfil.

Our current F-18 is a superb platform. It is multi-role, offers flexibility, has great sensors and the user still has access to raw-ish data. I truly believe we are the best multi-role platform out there, including the American F-16s and F/A-18C/E.

Having said that, they will need to be replaced. A fighter can only operate for so long. It has already been almost 30 years and to be honest, their airframe life is almost over. By the time we hit 2020, there will not be too much left of the old lady. The only viable option at the moment is the JSF. For 75M$ a piece, you get everything: Airframe, engines, EW suite, EO/IR, DAS, helmet. All the bells and whistles. Some will argue "Buy the Super Hornet". Well, surprise for all you folks, the Super Hornet cost 55M$ a piece. That doesn't include anything other than Airframe/Engines. Pylons, gun, racks, EW suite (and people that know about it know that this is the most expensive part of a weapon system), pods, helmets. Basically, everything that makes it a weapon platform is not included in the price. In the end, it would be much more expensive for way less in terms of capabilities.

But I digress. You must know more than frosti and I.

Personally I think we should buy the F18E because it can be purchased for a fixed price and its operating cost are well documented as a result of almost 10 years of in service history. And BTW all of the American oversight bodies who are looking at the F 35 program estimate its actual end state unit cost to be between $95 and $125 Million per aircraft and its operating cost to be at least 25% more than an F18. Canada will pay what ever the final cost is because we have no price cap on any of the agreements in place now with Lockheed.

Aux: I get it you naturally want to fly the very best aircraft out there, But there is an institutional price to pay to give you the 100% solution. Money shouldn't matter but of course it ultimately drives everything Military. I know your Non fighter brethren are already very concerned about the F 35 program starving the rest of the Air Force. The next time you see a Naval Officer ask him what effect introducing the 4 Submarines has had on the surface fleet. Be careful what you wish for..........

Believe me, it's not about me wanting to fly the very best aircraft. I may not even get to fly it. But I want the best capabilities we can afford. The non-fighter dudes got their C-17s, C-130Js and Chinooks. T
.

I think the guys/gals currently driving the Aurora, Griffon, Buffalo, Polaris, Twin Otter, and the always maintenance starved Cormorants, might take exception to your implication that the "non fighter dudes" got taken care of.......

There are programs in place for the Aurora and Buff. I doubt you'll find any Griffon, Polaris, Twin Otter or Cormorant drivers complain about their situation. When the others need a new airframe, they will get a program.

More bad news. Slow down the production rate or reduce the total program build numbers and the price per unit goes up ............