AVCANADA

Nobody is disputing the amazing technology and capability the F 35 represents, the issue in my mind is can we afford it.

If we can afford to keep the CBC going year, after painful year, we can afford to field a fleet of F-35's.

If we can afford to keep the CBC going year, after painful year, we can afford to field a fleet of F-35's. Everything else costs more and doesn't even come close to what the JSF has for tech. Hell, the F-22 is basically a 4.5gen fighter until it gets the F35's avionics.

Even though I agree with you on the F35 subject, I must say that this sort of false argument (or is "logical fallacy" more appropriate in this case? My english is not good enough to discern both) doesn't bring anything to the debate and reduces the credibility of your posts.

I have a strange suspicion that those against the purchase are also still sour from last May.

Nobody knows how much the F35's will cost except so far there doesn't seem to be an upper end. Lockheed doesn't even know so neither does the US DOD or US government. Since they don't know (and are pretty damned worried about it) it's impossible that the Canadian government would know either.

But we're supposed to believe frosti and AuxBatOn do?

I don't think so.

I'm basing my remarks on facts. Here they are again:

F-35 LRIP 4 airframe (with engine): 125M$
F/A-18E/F: 130M$
Rafale: 125M$
Eurofighter: 140M$

The first one is still in low rate initial production and the price is expected to reduce. The last 3 are what the planes were bought for. Like I said, even if the program is 170% the expected purchase price (75M$, not including inflation), we are still doing well, and that is not including the economic benefits of having the JSF in Canada (parts building, technology and returns when non-participant countries buy the JSF) and the obvious tactical advantage the JSF will being over the other 3.

Unit costs are a meaningless metric for comparison. The only true comparator is the total program cost over the life of the airframe ( usually calculated at 25 years). This includes all costs to own and operate the airplane and an estimate for the cost of airframe updates. A true understanding of total costs only comes with a mature airframe that has been in operational service for a number of years. Since this is obviously not the case for the F 35 what the final number will be for the F 35 will not be known until at least the 2020 time frame. Of note there has never been a new fighter development program where the costs projections during the aircraft development were significantly understated by the manufacturer. In the case of the Eurofighter the projected total cost of the aircraft when it was in the equivalent of the LRIP 4 stage of development turned out to be approximately half of what has turned out to be the actual costs now being experienced by air forces operating the type...........

Rockie: Those numbers are facts, you can look it up.

Right. I can look up fairy tales and conspiracy theories too.

Right. I can look up fairy tales and conspiracy theories too.

I'm off to pour myself a drink.

I don't think there is any point reasoning with you anymore....

AuxBatOn I think is just looking forward to a shiny new toy. In his position I might be too.

Read the accident report.

The root cause was not having the landing light one at night in a snowstorm.

OTTAWA — U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta confirmed Thursday that $488 billion U.S. in Pentagon budget cuts will affect his country’s plans to purchase the troubled F-35 joint strike fighter — which likely will threaten Canada’s timeline for acquiring the stealth fighter as well.

Israel, concerned about the potential for delays in the project, has reportedly joined Australia and the U.S. navy in upgrading its current fleet of fighters.

un-educated guess

Canada could make good use of A-10's....... to modify it for use in the high artic.