1984 Wapiti Aviation Crash Info

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Anyone out there familiar with the Wapiti Aviation crash of 1984 in Northern Alberta? This writer is trying to reconstruct the search and rescue efforts of that night by pilots at CFB Edmonton and others. Would hugely appreciate hearing from anyone who has any information or connection to that event. Thanks.

[co-joe]

Probably means CFB Namao. SAR Hercs used to be based there.

Do you have any specifics on type of aircraft, location, or anything that may jog some memories?

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To my knowledge it was CFB Edmonton and the rescue effort was carried out under the command of a Maj. Peter Dewar. I believe five military aircraft and 50 people were dispatched to the High Prairie/Swan Hills area, including a C-130 Hercules, a Chinook helicopter and a Twin Otter. The aircraft circled through the night from about 11 p.m. or so until 11 a.m. when the four survivors (six others died in the crash) were finally winched aboard the Chinook, which couldn't land in the rugged terrain. Thick fog and freezing rain had reduced visibility to zero and the aircraft were unable to locate the wreckage until after daybreak when conditions improved. Apparently, one of the Hercules aircraft experienced mechanical difficulties during the night and was forced to return to base. RCMP also initiated a ground search on snowmobiles around midnight, but rescuers, riding two up, got stuck in 90 cm deep snow and had to proceed on foot.

At the time, the rescue was cited by Capt. Bob Lemm as the largest air rescue exercise ever carried out by Canadian Forces Base Edmonton.

Hope this rings some bells for someone...

[oldtimer]

I remember the crash. The airplane was a Piper Chieftain owned by Wapiti (What A Pity) Aviation, based in Grand Prairie. Killed in the crash was Grant Knotley, the leader of the provincial New Democrat Party who lived on a farm in the High Prairie area. Another survivor was a prisoner being escorted by an RCMP officer. Both the officer and the prisoner were very helpful in bringing comfort to the survivors allowing them to survive the night.
At the time, the route of flight took the aircraft from CYXD to the Whitecourt VOR then north to the High Prairie NDB. The normal procedure to determine distance from High Prairie was using the Whitecourt DME but that evening, the pilot lost DME readout and thought he was past the Swan Hills and over lower terrain. It was a CFIT accident.
Two things made this accident noteworthy.
First was Grant Knotley, a distingushed and well liked politition.
The second was the totally unprincipled air operator.
Often known as the 89 day airline because if Dale fired a pilot after 90 days, he had to pay severence. TC shut Wapiti down shortly after this and TC came under fire for lack of oversight of the operation which prompted Dale to sue and I believe he won. There may still be some pilots flying today who got their start with What A Pity and left before their reputation was tarnished. I do not know if the pilot ever flew again. Wapiti hung on for years after but the airplanes never turned a wheel.

[Old fella]

Correct on yer observations.............it was typical 1980's type of operations

[CD]

Not SAR related, but there may be a few bits of information that may help:

AvCanada: Wapiti Lawsuit (23 years later)
TCCA System Safety Video Library: 114 Wapiti
Globe & Mail: Alberta politician was Canada's first Muslim cabinet minister (obit of a Wapiti survivor)

[AEROBAT]

If I recall correctly the pilot started his decent once he was abeam the Swan Hills NDB, believing that then you have cleared the highest terrain.

I know that had he been a bit higher he probably would have pulled it off. I used to fly the exact route several years ago.

[oldncold]

One thing not mentioned in this post but may have been int the others, is the oat ( outside air temp) was very cold. My understanding in the -25-35 range c I remember winter of 84-85 was the coldest in alberta in 50 yrs snow and cold started around the 15of sept and did not let up until late april . The bitter cold was a contributing factor in the lack survivability of at least one pass

The aircraft hit the top of the hill partly because the cold wx corrections were not or incorrectly applied . That accident is a perfect case study in cold wx ops and corrections. Something today in the era of gps that many forget to do, at their peril. As gps with out wass is poor at correcting for at -30c My quirk to instill in new captns that a 200ft hill or a 10000 ft mtn is going to hurt alot if those cold wx corrections are not appplied in the approach. fly safe.

[oldtimer]

We can all second guess what the pilot did or did not do but the bottom line was the company culture at Wapiti. Dale required that every trip go regardless of weather or the pilots did not get paid their mileage pay.
With 9 people in a Chieftain, the airplane took off out of YXD overgross. By the time the flight got to Swan Hills, fuel burns should have gotten them close to gross weight.
It was and sometimes still is the old story of poorly trained pilots flying poorly maintained airplanes pressured into difficult conditions.
I seem to remember the pilot wanted to get below cloud to .. run to High Prairie. with no radar contact and off airways, the pilot was more or less on his own. What some pilots did was sometimes called "helicopter VFR" whereby the flight sees the tops of the hills and flies "contact" down the sides of the hills. He just picked the wrong hills. Wapiti was also the Esso fuel dealer and the company I was working for built some highways in the area so I remember talking to some of the pilots and they told me that is how they did things.
If memory serves me corret, the wx was below the NDB minima for High Prairie. It was a private NDB with a company approach into there.

[SheriffPatGarrett]

Speaking of the Chieftain...dont be impressed by the engines...in any kind of light rime ice with ANY kind of load,
the bugger will NOT hold altitude on one engine.
With that huge cowl flap speedbrake, you have a choice: hold altitude and
watch the remaining engine melt or open the big belly flap, keep temps at the red line
and start creeping down...(speaking from experience)

[GRK]

Isn't there a thread around here about the book "Into The Abyss"? I started it but had to put it down as it was too close to my heart. (Family friends involved) Might be a good ref for you? I hope to be able to pick the book up again soon.

[trey kule]

the book has quite a bit regarding the DND SAR including names etc.. It would be my first reference.You can download it a couple of minutes of the net. It has a pretty good bibliography in it.

As to the cold wx corrections etc, that is not what the book talked about, and the pilot ,I understand was involved in the book research.. Pre GPS days. He mistook his postion and descended before he knew he was safe to do so (prior to beacon passage)..Hit the ground ..
All this other stuff about company culture etc. kind of begs the issue. It was the Captain's decsion to go..end of story. After an accident people come up with all this other stuff to excuse their failing to properly exercise their command authority. In this case, and others like it, people died. Young pilots constantly want to offload this responsability because they were under pressure.. Unless someone is literally holding a gun to your head, you are the only decision maker.. And to the pilot's credit, I think he acknowledges this...
That is not to excuse any operator for putting pressure on a pilot, but by the same token it is not an excuse for a pilot in command to fall victim to it..This type of accident will continue to reoccur until pilots realize that caving into any type of pressure, real or perceived, may have some serious consequences.. sorry for the thread drift.

[Big Bird Anonymous]

Scribe-PM me

[Debnoskiye]

Does anyone ever talk about the other people that died in the crash? My mother Elaine Noskiye was one of them. I was only 9 at the time but I remember that morning like it was yesterday...

[Conquest Driver]

Isn't there a thread around here about the book "Into The Abyss"?

http://www.amazon.ca/Into-Abyss-Extraor ... 1455501964

That book has an enormous amount of information in it. I recommend it highly.

[pdw]

(This quote is from above, posted last week; the thread originally started back in June of 2011.)

Does anyone ever talk about the other people that died in the crash?

Most Volks eventually will, most of the time it seems, except that "anyone" who is close, loved ones, friends .. only open up to "talk about" them if / when ready (or able) to ..

... the oat (outside air temperature) was very cold. My understanding, ...

Oct19/84 6-7pm dep YXD 0C / YZU 8pm -2C (nearest WX-history to crash site) min overnight temp -3C & calm

[G.N. Thompson]

That could explain the freezing rain mentioned above. I remember Mr. Notley dropping by the YQU wx stn, was well respected and pretty knowledgeable on aviation subjects. We were told that the trip would often cancel IFR enroute YPE and slide over into the strip. Believe YPE techs serviced the NDB.

[pdw]

FZRA reported by SAR is on record for CYPE 1-3AM. Approach to High Prairie is at the south side of the HI, so a light easterly component off Lesser Slave Lake ... very warm water from a previous week of balmy weather adds to the moisture left behind the large LO system (by then centered well east at southern MB / northern MN).

[Ricktye]

It was a good book and pretty well written by Mr. Shaben's daughter. One part I personally found interesting, was why Mr Shaben left politics after the terms he served; the PC party of Alberta was becoming too corrupt with too many patronage appointments, payoffs and the like. He certainly seemed to be a man of integrety. To bad many our politicians of today don't live by the same standard!

Isn't there a thread around here about the book "Into The Abyss"? I started it but had to put it down as it was too close to my heart. (Family friends involved) Might be a good ref for you? I hope to be able to pick the book up again soon.