Ice Pilots - Season 3

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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:03 pm

shitdisturber wrote:


The other thing that leaves me shaking my head about the whole fiasco; you're sitting on the ground in Greenwood, the maintenance base for the Aurora and leave the desnagging to a guy who seems to be a great AME but is still learning the airplane. Did it never occur to you guys to ask the military for help? Nine'll get you ten there was somebody sitting around the maintenance squadron you could have told you off the top of his head exactly where to look to find the problem. After all the Auroras have only been flying thousands of hours a year since 1980.

Well if it is a prop problem I can guarantee no 500 series tradesman at Greenwood is going to know SFA about a Aero Products prop, as the Aurora has Hamilton Standard props which are completely different.......
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frozen solid
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by frozen solid » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:46 pm

short bus wrote:
As hard as it is for professional pilots to accept, there is very little difference between them and a professional driver.


From someone who's done both, you're totally out to lunch.
No, wait!! He's right! I wonder how many of you pretentious, self-important pilots would be able to fly a good ILS approach in a Peterbilt 18-wheeler, or touch it down on glassy water on a short lake, or land it and bring it to a stop from highway speed on a seven hundred foot patch of esker?

How many of you could take a look at the infrared satellite image of the sea ice off Axel Heiburg Island and make an intelligent decision not to drive your Mack dump truck on it, taking into consideration the amount of time last month's open leads have been frozen and how many storms have deposited snow on the new ice?

How many of you pilots would bother to consult weather maps to decide if the icing would be worse than forecast and cause a problem for the de-icing boots an your international harvester? How many of you would be able to land a fully loaded cement truck after a night circling approach at minimums in blowing snow?

None of you, that's who. That is a job for a truck driver, not a snivelling, wimpy pilot who works harder trying to make his job sound important than he does loading or "driving" his plane.

Actually, being a truck driver is more like being a foreign diplomat. Here are some of the similarities:

They both have a job
They both work hard (or claim to)
They both have unpredictable schedules
They both spend lots of time away from home.
They both sometimes have to go to work early.
There is an embassy and a truck driving school in Toronto
They both live in houses, or apartments.
They both occasionally choose to drink Dos Equis
They both sometimes use stimulants
&c.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Chuck Ellsworth » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:20 pm

I take it from some of the posters here that flying an ILS, landing on glassy water, landing on short strips are some kind of superhuman skills?

Seems to me all of the above can be taught to the average person in a relatively short period of time.

Sure there are differences between driving a truck and flying an airplane, but they are still machines that are operated by everyday normal people.......
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After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.

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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by frozen solid » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:40 pm

Chuck Ellsworth wrote:I take it from some of the posters here that flying an ILS, landing on glassy water, landing on short strips are some kind of superhuman skills?
Nope, but the are pretty impressive "human" skills. Well except maybe the ILS. I included that to make our airline-employed colleagues feel included. :wink:

Must be something about flying that's worth doing and a little bit more exciting to you than doing your yard work or doing your laundry (two activities that also require the operation of a machine) or you wouldn't always be on here talking about it, Chuck. I don't suppose you'd be as self-effacing if someone responded to one of your (excellent) nostalgic flying stories with "so what, Chuck, anyone can do that crap". Just admit it for once. You are just as susceptible as the rest of us to wanting recognition for what you consider to be your accomplishments. Otherwise you wouldn't care if anyone here knew about them or wanted to listen to you. I mean that as kindly as it is possible to interpret it. Some people consider their ability to play an instrument well or tie a really good balloon animal to be an accomplishment. Why can't we consider some of the things we do in aeroplanes to be worthy of some admiration and respect? From now on I am going to respond to any of your stories about things you've done with "so what, Chuck, anyone can do that." Until you admit I'm right. :mrgreen: You're going to hate it.
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Last edited by frozen solid on Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by short bus » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:41 pm

When my truck broke down, I pulled over to the side of the road....
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by daedalusx » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:53 pm

Diadem wrote:
daedalusx wrote:You're using an excel spreadsheet to load and balance a 50 ton a/c ?

Wow ....
Why not? Cargo operators like FedEx use computer programs to calculate weight and balance on much larger aircraft every day. It's just addition and multiplication, and a human is far more likely to make an error than a computer.
That's the point. Excel is an odd tool for that kind of work. For an A/C that complex you'd expect at least Flitestar with a basic model with the correct fuel burn rates at altitude, range tables and variable CG. MS Excel is fine for a 172 or even a BE10 but for a 50 ton A/C it's surprising.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Chuck Ellsworth » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:03 pm

Frozen solid, of course there is something special about flying.

However for most of us it is difficult to explain why we do it.

I am one of the lucky ones for two reasons, first I never really had a problem flying anything because it just seems easy to me.......trying to figure out when not to fly was the difficult part. :mrgreen:

The second thing is I was very fortunate to have found mostly good employers, when I was not happy with any employer I either got fired or quit so the good generally exceeded the bad in my career.

Also for the last twenty or so years I was self employed and worked with some of the best crew members on earth.

Speaking of trucks...........I am back flying again and my employer owns a large trucking firm. :mrgreen:

If you follow my ramblings on this site you will find that my main message is directed at good decision making.......then even with moderate skills you can live to be as old as me.

My new retirement age is when I turn eighty......in four years. :prayer:
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The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.

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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Adiabatic » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:52 pm

If anyone would like to see a PDF of my excel program I created for the Electra, PM me.
I have all the fuel tables I needed, for pressure altitudes ranging from 8000 feet to 24000 feet, from temps +20 to -55 depending on altitude.
I have been within one minute of forcasted ETA at destination on many occasions, and within 200lbs of fuel onboard at destination as well.
My captain(s) have worked for NWT Air in the past, and have flown the Electra cumulatively about 18000 hours, and they agree with me that this program works. That works for me!

Check it out! It was a lot of work, it took quite a while to program, and some diggin in books i've had for many years in a prior profession.
Great circle formulas are just insane, radians, pie (tasty tasty pie).

I know I may have gone on a bit of a rant, and it's hard not to get a burned up about it, but you all see what you see, and I see what I see.
So it is as it is.

Take care Merry HoliChristmas-akah and such!!

AB
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by daedalusx » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:09 pm

That's really impressive AB!
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by flyinthebug » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:11 am

short bus wrote:When my truck broke down, I pulled over to the side of the road....
This is one major difference between the two jobs. If your truck breaks down, you pull over to the side of the road and call dispatch. If we break down, we suddenly try to stay alive! You cant compare the two industries. My father was very successful in the ground transportation industry...but never once did he compare what i did to what he did. Again, its apples and oranges.

I have a great deal of respect for Truck drivers. They work long hard hours like we do, and they travel many miles away from their family for weeks at a time. Its an honourable job and one you should take pride in. But much like the "Doctor vs Pilot" thread proves, they are two vastly different careers, with vastly different obstacles.

Fly safe all.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by North Shore » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:32 pm

So if the contract is so critical to the company, (and a manager's future employment and reputation) then why not double-crew the aeroplane for the duration? And, stick around to supervise. It might cost a few extra dollars in meals, but if the unexpected happens (Time to spare, go by air!) then you've got two engineers to trouble-shoot, and an extra flightcrew to take over in case of a timex.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:38 pm

North Shore wrote:So if the contract is so critical to the company, (and a manager's future employment and reputation) then why not double-crew the aeroplane for the duration? And, stick around to supervise. It might cost a few extra dollars in meals, but if the unexpected happens (Time to spare, go by air!) then you've got two engineers to trouble-shoot, and an extra flightcrew to take over in case of a timex.

Buffalo strikes me as one of those companies that operate on the " There is never time or money to do the job right, but there is always seem to be time and money to do the job over" management principal.........

Disclaimer: I have never worked for Buffalo, so I am going by what I have been told by others and their general reputation. I have only had a few chances to observe them in action, but I can say those few times did seem to lend credence to the companies general reputation in the industry.

However while I enjoy Ice Pilots as entertainment, I don't consider anything shown as "real".

BTW the "engine overspeed" alarm they were fussing about on the last episode, is actually the airspeed "overspeed" clacker :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by North Shore » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:26 pm

Big Pistons Forever wrote:BTW the "engine overspeed" alarm they were fussing about on the last episode, is actually the airspeed "overspeed" clacker
Funny you should mention that, BPF. I've never been in a plane that went fast enough to have a clacker - but as soon as I heard it, it was instantly recogniseable. Then they started going on about a prop overspeed. WTF? I'll chalk that up to editing for 'suspense for the masses', though..
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Northern Flyer » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:33 pm

North Shore wrote:
Big Pistons Forever wrote:BTW the "engine overspeed" alarm they were fussing about on the last episode, is actually the airspeed "overspeed" clacker
Funny you should mention that, BPF. I've never been in a plane that went fast enough to have a clacker - but as soon as I heard it, it was instantly recogniseable. Then they started going on about a prop overspeed. WTF? I'll chalk that up to editing for 'suspense for the masses', though..
415's have them North Shore
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Arian17 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:54 pm

On the Canadian aircraft register there are 13 C-54s registered with Buffalo. Are they all airworthy and in flying condition? Or are they stored/parked and supply parts?
How many are actually really flying?
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by . ._ » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:45 am

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Buffalo strikes me as one of those companies that operate on the " There is never time or money to do the job right, but there is always seem to be time and money to do the job over" management principal.........
:lol:

In my experience and research, the only company in the world that doesn't operate that way is Toyota.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Go Juice » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:13 pm

Toyota operates pedal to the metal!!!!


Wether you want it or not.....
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Tacoma » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:57 pm

Funny how 2 minutes into this weeks episode they show the Tindi Twin Otter starting #1, while playing the sound of a Radial starting. Classic
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by LuckyPilot » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:27 pm

Tacoma, that gave me a bit of a giggle as well. I guess the sound of a turbine starting up is not as dramatic as the old piston, on that point I would have to agree with the editors.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by cdnpilot77 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:31 pm

I paused and rewound it 4 times to see if thats what I was actually hearing or whether my mind was playing tricks on me.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Hornblower » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:06 pm

I like the show, not Joe so much though. I also watch Flying Wild Alaska, and that is even worse with editing; all the turbine aircraft have piston sounding engines when taking-off, or doing a flyby. I just try to ignore the stupidity of the editors and sound guys. I also generally try to ignore some of the characters on both shows, like skateboarder dude ... and fat Mikey.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by ditar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:33 pm

It's the same thing whenever "Mayday" features an accident involving a turboprop. They always make it sound like it has radials on it.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Naveed » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:42 pm

Says on the buffalo website they offer courses in "Hiring & Firing" in their school of aviation. Does that involve just not calling people back.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by Driving Rain » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:21 am

The last episode was really good example of the hard work it takes to make your living flying up there. The ice strip carved out in two days by Jimmy was amazing and that ramp! Wished I had something that good when I worked up north.
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Re: Ice Pilots - Season 3

Post by flyinthebug » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:58 am

Driving Rain wrote:The last episode was really good example of the hard work it takes to make your living flying up there. The ice strip carved out in two days by Jimmy was amazing and that ramp! Wished I had something that good when I worked up north.
Well said and agreed DR. That ramp was pretty freakin cool and whoever designed it deserves some props! We had an engineer apprentice (who is now a fully licenced AME) who could build almost anything for any purpose. I find that type of "in their own head engineering" very fascinating. That ramp is ingenius, and the work Jimmy pulled off with that little D6 dozer...was equal to the work of 2 D10s doing the same thing/same time frame. Props to both! Great show guys, keep em coming.
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