6 Month PPC's for Cross Border Flight Ops!!!!!

[Hiflyer2]

I am not sure how many of you in the 704, 703 world and not sure about 705 world, have been notified / made aware that your Part 129 FAA Ops Spec that allows you to conduct Commercial Flight Ops / Charters into the USA contains a condition which states that you must follow ICAO PPC standards to operate in US Airspace. These PPC standards require a government mandated and approved check every 6 months. This has always been the case (I am told) and only now they have announced that this rule is about to be enforced. Hence I am going to the USA tomorrow to do a 6 month PPC ride. I have been discussing the possibilities of doing a 6 month Line check or a PPC in the a/c with both TC and FAA but to no avail! These options are not available to 704 operators.

If anyone has any info or insight on any of this please contact me in a PM or on the board. The implications to 703, 704 operators are quite serious in regards to continued flight ops into the USA not to mention added financial burden in a tough economic climate.

Here is a CAIRS Report I filed requesting some options or solutions:

Issue Description:

My concern is regarding the 24 month or 12 month requirement for a PPC in the 704 world versus the requirement for a PPC check every 6 months in ICAO Annex , Part 1 (Chapter 9) which governs us in International Flight Operations. Many countries such as the USA and Europe now require compliance with the ICAO standards. The Canadian Standards did not meet the ICAO Standards.

I have been led to believe that this situation became a finding when ICAO did an audit on Transport Canada. I have also been led to believe that Transport Canada could file a difference with ICAO and that could possibly alleviate the requirement to comply.
Suggested Solution:
There are a number of possible solutions to this problem, although most of the solutions come at a large expense to operators or over a long time period.

Ideally for us, rather than make 2 trips to the USA for simulator training per year , we would like to conduct a 6 month PPC check ride in our own aircraft once per year and a PPC in the simulator once per year.

This would go against the CARS standard which states all checkrides must be completed in the simulator if there is one available in North America. In essence we would be improving the safety by conducting more PPC's than the CARS require. We would be doing 4 PPC checks within a 24 month period, rather than 1 in 24 months as the CARS exemption now allows.

This is only one possible scenario. Ideally we would like to see Transport Canada work out a cost effective solution with ICAO.

Approved response:
Dear Sir,

As you are aware, the concerns you expressed in your submission of September 29, 2011 in connection with the 24 month or 12 month requirement for a Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC), were entered into the Civil Aviation Issues Reporting System (CAIRS) and were assigned file number VX-5514. I apologize for the delay in responding. As a result of my review of the file I would like to take this opportunity to provide you with the following information:

The Aeronautics Act Part 1 Aeronautics 4.(2) states:

Application of foreign law

(2) Every person exercising the privileges accorded by a Canadian aviation document in a foreign state and every Canadian aircraft operated in a foreign state shall comply with or be operated in accordance with the applicable aeronautics laws of that state.


As you mention, air operators and pilots who operate outside Canada are required to comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization’s (ICAO) flight check requirements as prescribed in ICAO Annex 6 Operation of Aircraft Part 1 International Commercial Air Transport - Aeroplane section 9.4.4, which requires a check once every 6 months.

Transport Canada has filed a difference with ICAO in respect of our PPC requirements; however, the filing of a difference is only a means of identifying differences and does not alleviate the obligation to meet the laws of a foreign state while operating internationally.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had initiated a dialogue with Transport Canada in regards to understanding our different PPC validity periods and determining whether they (the FAA) would accept these differences; however, at this time nothing has been resolved. Unfortunately, your current options are to comply with the FAA requirements when operating in the US, or reach an agreement with the FAA on an alternative means of compliance.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for sharing your views, as all comments we receive are appreciated.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact your<mailto:your> regional Principal Operations Inspector.

Sincerely,


George Lagace for Arlo Speer
Chief Commercial Flight Standards
Standards Branch
Civil Aviation

[Cough Syrup]

...

[loopy]

Ouch. Very costly. Good for the teaining providers only!

[A Regulator]

Well it has been there or years and all operators have to comply with the rules of the country (state) that they want to operate in. Annex 6 part 1 requires a lot more for air operators than just 6 month PPC's and I would strongly suggest that company management read it and amend their COM to comply if they intend to operate outside Canada. TC does file differences with ICAO however that does not allow an air operator to disregard the state regulations. All air operators should have an international procedures manual that would list the differences and how they will comply.

The FAA has decided to conduct ramp inspections on all air operators in their country, the European authorities have also been conducting inspections. If you do not comply or do not have the required documentation to operate don't be surprised if the FAA grounds you.

Note: one requirement if I remember is to have a certified true copy of your AOC on the aircraft. There is something else for route qualifications and IFR requirements, also require a safety system. ( all done from memory) and for information only.

[loopy]

I'm just curious if any drivers for a large outifit like Skyservice, Sunwest or Execaire can comment if they already do more PPC rides than TC mandates to allow for this. I know they manage a lot of airplanes but also do a lot of 704 charters as well.

[A Regulator]

I'm just curious if any drivers for a large outifit like Skyservice, Sunwest or Execaire can comment if they already do more PPC rides than TC mandates to allow for this. I know they manage a lot of airplanes but also do a lot of 704 charters as well.

Most 705 operators comply with ppc requirements as their PPC's are valid for 6 months with an alternate method available at the next 6 month cycle.

I know of a few operators who do PPC's every 6 months (705) operators as they determined it is easier to show an inspector in a different country a valid to date than try and carry the documentation to show the alternate checking and try to explain it.

[trey kule]

A. Reg

You have a nice way of giving good advice

[A Regulator]

If you search for TP11958E has some more information on aeronautical terminology used in Canada and emphasize any differences in terms or definitions as used by the FAA and ICAO

[CD]

TP 11958 - Glossary for Pilots and Air Traffic Services Personnel

[BE20 Driver]

This might be a rhetorical question but define operating in US airspace. ie I'm transiting through and picking up fuel on the way to Mexico for a few months of work - do I have to comply or is my line check sufficient based on the fact that I'm not doing revenue flying in US airspace? Splitting hairs to be sure but better to ask now.

[ahramin]

This might be a rhetorical question but define operating in US airspace. ie I'm transiting through and picking up fuel on the way to Mexico for a few months of work - do I have to comply or is my line check sufficient based on the fact that I'm not doing revenue flying in US airspace? Splitting hairs to be sure but better to ask now.

We're talking about meeting the requirements of an Ops Spec. If you have the Ops Spec and you are in the US for any reason (including transiting) most inspectors would take the position that you have to meet the requirements.

I'm fairly sure a commercial aircraft transiting through the US would not need the Ops Spec but I would check with the FAA first. I'd also check with CBP as you may very well have to post a bond.

[A Regulator]

Read the applicability of Annex 6 Part 1 to ensure you have to comply, if i remember it is for international operations for operators who receive renumeration of any kind. All scheduled and non scheduled operations. If it applies, you need to follow it, they may have different expectations for offset tracks in using FMS, I think they expect you to turn directly over the Navaids so not "smart turns" however I maybe mistaken on that one but at one time you had to. Remember it is not just for PPCs.

If you are an operator in Canada you should have the USA ops specs from the FAA to operate. You also need to have the Canadian ops spec to operate in their RVSM airspace.

The post at the beginning is the official response from Ottawa/FAA that you must follow it. If you choose not to and get caught you will suffer the consequences. I just can't think of how you are going to explain it to the customer who chartered you that can't go because you are not trained, no authority to operate etc. TC will also receive a copy of the ramp check and it will be routed to your company POI who will be asking you to explain as the FAA will most likely want a reply. I have seen some reports from the JAA authorities where it says abc airways is not allowed to return because they did not have the documents needed. Another inspection report for another operator indicated the Captain did not have the proper license to fly the aircraft and the FO had a private certificate this was for a very large biz jet.

[loopy]

Bumping in hopes of renewing discussion...

[TG]

How about 702 !?

[airdude]

For all of you who would have to review thier Ops spec with the FAA... Here is what we did.. We negociated the Ops psec to reflect the FAA rules (ppc every 12 month + training every 6 month)

Ref:

FAR 121.441 Proficiency checks.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person nor may any person serve as a required pilot flight crewmember unless that person has satisfactorily completed either a proficiency check, or an approved simulator course of training under §121.409, as follows:

(1) For a pilot in command, a proficiency check within the preceding 12 calendar months and, in addition, within the preceding 6 calendar months, either a proficiency check or the simulator training.

FAR 135.293 Initial and recurrent pilot testing requirements.
(a) No certificate holder may use a pilot, nor may any person serve as a pilot, unless, since the beginning of the 12th calendar month before that service, that pilot has passed a written or oral test, given by the Administrator or an authorized check pilot, on that pilot's knowledge in the following areas—

[V1RotateV2]

This might be a rhetorical question but define operating in US airspace. ie I'm transiting through and picking up fuel on the way to Mexico for a few months of work - do I have to comply or is my line check sufficient based on the fact that I'm not doing revenue flying in US airspace? Splitting hairs to be sure but better to ask now.

When you just ferry or transit the US for any non-commercial reason you are operating as part 91 (General Aviation), therefore most 135/121/129 rules would not apply to that flight.

[atmos]

I always believed that a "ride" could be done in the Aircraft (turbo-jet) that only training needed to be done in the available Sim.

the following is from CAR 724-115:

(8) Synthetic Flight Training Device

(a) A Synthetic Flight Training Device has two classifications:

(i) Full flight simulator (FFS); and

(ii) Flight Training Device (FTD).

(b) For turbo-jet aircraft, initial and recurrent Pilot Proficiency Checks shall be conducted on a combination of a flight training device certified to Level 4 or higher and a full flight simulator or, a combination of a flight training device certified to Level 6 or higher and the aeroplane. Where a synthetic flight training device is not available in North America the required training may be conducted in the aeroplane.

(c) For pressurized turbo-prop aircraft, Transport Canada encourages carriers to conduct training on the simulator, or to use a combination of training in an FTD and the aeroplane.

[A Regulator]

(b) For turbo-jet aircraft, initial and recurrent Pilot Proficiency Checks shall be conducted on a combination of a flight training device certified to Level 4 or higher and a full flight simulator or, a combination of a flight training device certified to Level 6 or higher and the aeroplane. Where a synthetic flight training device is not available in North America the required training may be conducted in the aeroplane.

Did you not answer your question? PPCs must be done in synthetic flight training device if in North America if it is turbo jet. Talking about a FFS not a combination of a FTD and aircraft.

[Prodriver12]

Does anyone know if the latest copy of ICAO Annex 6 provides relief? My experience is that most FSDO's are not enforcing this.

[xsbank]

FAR Part 121 in the US is for scheduled airlines, Part 135 is for charter and Part 91 is private. You would not have to comply with more than one 'Part.'