Flying while suspended for Impaired

[Road Trip]

Got a buddy who got a 6 month license suspension for driving while impaired. He says he can still fly, even commercially, saying he’s not driving a car on the highway. But I thought that when you got an impaired the judge / law says to, “not operate a motor vehicle.” A plane seems like a motor vehicle to me.

[burhead1]

The driving conviction in Provincial, the pilots lic is Federal.

[DanWEC]

There are actually several check boxes on the conviction form, I believe automobile, train, aircraft, maybe one or two others. It is only the boxes checked that are prohibited to operate, and that's usually just automobile.

[oldtimer]

Years ago I flew for a road builder and having workers loosing their licences was a problem because these guys also had to drive the trucks when the project ended and we moved.
But then it was discovered that some of the guys could not even operate machinery on a highway, even though the machinery was not licensed nor was it required to be. The machinery/company had to carry insurance when operating on a public highway.
If memory serves me correct, some guys could not even operate something like a crawler tractor off the highway. I cannot remember if that was an insurance requirement or a Workers Comp requirement. I guess it all depends on if the violation was impaired or if the offender was a fall down drunk and whether it was a repeat offender.
I have read where the FAA in the USA takes a look at pilots who have been convicted of impaired driving but I do not know what the consequences are. I would think one may get a mulligen for the first but get chopped off at the knees on the second offence.

[shitdisturber]

I have read where the FAA in the USA takes a look at pilots who have been convicted of impaired driving but I do not know what the consequences are. I would think one may get a mulligen for the first but get chopped off at the knees on the second offence.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that in the US a suspension applies to anything with a motor that's not on private property. I don't know about a mulligan but if memory serves, at the time of his fatal crash John Denver was under a lifetime ban following his second impaired conviction. Steep but reasonable in my view. Again this is going on the dim recesses of something I saw years ago but I also seem to remember that in Canada a judge can suspend your license for an impaired conviction but it rarely happens because it's not often mentioned in court that you have one. I could be wrong of course, it has been known to happen but the last time I remember was on my wedding day.

[Sasquash]

The United States had regulations (as of a few years ago, anyway) requiring each State's motor vehicle branch, to forward their list of conviction of impaired drivers to the FAA which then applied the suspension to the pilot's licence.

In Canada, the Provinces are not required, at this time, to provide TC with a list of the convicted impaired driver. Therefore, if the police authority is aware of the impaired driver being also a pilot, an application to suspend the pilot's license can be made at the time of the impaired driving conviction to apply the suspension to both driver and pilot's licence.

[Colonel Sanders]

an application to suspend the pilot's license can be made at the time of the impaired driving conviction to apply the suspension to both driver and pilot's licence

Given that automobiles (and driver's licences) are provincially regulated, and aviation (and pilot's licences) is federally-regulated, this is getting into slightly murky constitutional waters.

The provinces attempt to interfere with and regulate aviation, and every few decades the supreme court firmly slaps them down. This smells of more of the same.

Do you have a reference in the Aeronautics Act or the Canadian Aviation Regulations (or anywhere else) which empowers (or even obligates) Transport to fine or suspend someone's pilot licence in a great spirit of co-operation with a Canadian province or American state or any other foreign country, which has charged a Canadian pilot with drunk driving?

If so, for how much and for how long? Is there an appeal process?

[FlyGy]

The driving conviction in Provincial, the pilots lic is Federal.

Last I checked, DUI and DWI were in the Criminal Code of Canada, which makes it a federal law not provincial. However, your license can only be suspended for operating the vehicle for which that license is issued. If you drive a car and get a DUI, you get charged under the Criminal Code and your driver's license is suspended. Your pilot license is still valid, thus you can fly. If you are convicted of flying while intoxicated, your pilot license is suspended, but you can still drive. It's all up to the judge though,

[Prairie Chicken]

I have no idea about the US, but in Canada the extent of the prohibition is at the judges descretion. I suspect DanWEC is right. I've heard of a couple of comm pilots requesting the judge not include a/c in the prohibition order and it was granted as the licence was the guy's livelihood.

[Doc]

I have no idea about the US, but in Canada the extent of the prohibition is at the judges descretion. I suspect DanWEC is right. I've heard of a couple of comm pilots requesting the judge not include a/c in the prohibition order and it was granted as the licence was the guy's livelihood.

Of course he had to commute on a camel.

[Dagwood]

Therefore, if the police authority is aware of the impaired driver being also a pilot...

That's reason #1 to never wear your 4 bar epaulets, big watch, aviators, tie, captains hat, or raic pass when not actually piloting, even if you're a flight instructor.

[viccoastdog]

Dagwood you missed the rather fundamental issue of not driving while gooned up, regardless of what you're wearing. A pilot should never ever be in this situation - we are supposed to have better judgement than most.

[Dagwood]

I know. It should be a criminal offense to drink and drive with the offender thrown in jail and permanently banned from driving, no questions asked.

The " " was meant to convey sarcasm.

[mag check]

Last I checked, DUI and DWI were in the Criminal Code of Canada, which makes it a federal law not provincial. However, your license can only be suspended for operating the vehicle for which that license is issued. If you drive a car and get a DUI, you get charged under the Criminal Code and your driver's license is suspended. Your pilot license is still valid, thus you can fly. If you are convicted of flying while intoxicated, your pilot license is suspended, but you can still drive. It's all up to the judge though,

How does this work though?
A boating license is federal, but a vessel is off bounds if you get a dui in a car, and if you get a dui in a boat, you lose your auto license.

[rigpiggy]

253. (1) Every one commits an offence who operates a motor vehicle or vessel or operates or assists in the operation of an aircraft or of railway equipment or has the care or control of a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment, whether it is in motion or not,

(a) while the person’s ability to operate the vehicle, vessel, aircraft or railway equipment is impaired by alcohol or a drug; or

(b) having consumed alcohol in such a quantity that the concentration in the person’s blood exceeds eighty milligrams of alcohol in one hundred millilitres of blood.

considering some disabled folks have been unable to drive a scooter. well the prohibition is operation of a motor vehicle
make an order prohibiting the offender from operating a motor vehicle on any street, road, highway or other public place, or from operating a vessel or an aircraft or railway equipment, as the case may be,

(a) for a first offence, during a period of not more than three years plus any period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment, and not less than one year;

(b) for a second offence, during a period of not more than five years plus any period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment, and not less than two years; and

(c) for each subsequent offence, during a period of not less than three years plus any period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment.

[thirdtimecharm]

I was extremely stupid a few years ago and had a few drinks while painting a house in Rankin- I felt fine and drove in a blizzard and got in a 5 km/h fender bender. Long story short, I blew .09/.09 and was charged. I plead guilty immediately and my license was suspended for a year and I had to pay a $600 fine.

On the written decision I received from the court there was a specific mention of not operating boats, snowmobiles, atv's, and aircraft. One of the court officials told me that they have no formal method of exchanging information with Transport Canada and they could not formally inform them of my suspension. But was also told that Transport Canada, while investigating an infraction, found out that the involved pilot was under a driving suspension and was additionally charged with operating an aircraft without a valid pilot's license. I don't know how true this story is, but the message was clear.

I am not an active pilot and the issue was moot, but it is something to consider. If I was an active pilot it would have been something I considered more. But, the position of the court and the crown was made quite clear to me during this process. It was boiler plate language in the written decision and there was no mention in court that I used to fly.

Again, I want to stress that this was an extremely stupid thing for me to have done and I am ashamed of myself for having put myself in that situation. Since that time I don't drive even after having one beer as I felt at the time that I was completely fine, but you never really know.

Jimi O

[Nark]

In reference to the FAA:

The pilot has 60 days to notify the FAA of a DUI conviction. Which may lead to certificate action, or denial of certificate upgrade in the future.

[A321]

I guess hypothetically there is nothing to stop someone from pursuing a pilot licence in Canada and fly commercially once you've been granted an early parole from your DUI prison time, but your driver's license is still suspended for 7 years.

Just read a fascinating article about the son of a high profile Canadian politician who has been able to turn his life around by becoming a commercial pilot after a DUI, which caused the death of his friend and resulting 7 year suspension of his drivers license. Turns out you can become a Dash 8 pilot in Canada flying 30-50 passengers around while at the same time not be able to drive yourself to work!? Not even COVID can keep this now A321 and A330 rated Airline pilot on the ground after a pandemic furlough, as it appears he was able to land A corporate gig on a newer Bombardier jet. I guess HR flight ops don't check driving records of prospective pilots in Canada as there would be no correlation with how one drives a vehicle and how one flies an aircraft.

The article I read must be Fake News.....

[Inverted2]

You mentioned this in the article:

“high profile Canadian politician”

I’m sure that has something to do with it. They have connections you know.

[rookiepilot]

I guess hypothetically there is nothing to stop someone from pursuing a pilot licence in Canada and fly commercially once you've been granted an early parole from your DUI prison time, but your driver's license is still suspended for 7 years.

Just read a fascinating article about the son of a high profile Canadian politician who has been able to turn his life around by becoming a commercial pilot after a DUI, which caused the death of his friend and resulting 7 year suspension of his drivers license. Turns out you can become a Dash 8 pilot in Canada flying 30-50 passengers around while at the same time not be able to drive yourself to work!? Not even COVID can keep this now A321 and A330 rated Airline pilot on the ground after a pandemic furlough, as it appears he was able to land A corporate gig on a newer Bombardier jet. I guess HR flight ops don't check driving records of prospective pilots in Canada as there would be no correlation with how one drives a vehicle and how one flies an aircraft.

The article I read must be Fake News.....

Brutal.

Should be a public registry.
Like being a sex offender.
You're done.