Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Shiny Side Up » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:21 am

Unfortunately I think at least some of the blame must be placed the structure of Canadian aviation training.
Some, but not a lot. You either are someone who goes through your life in a consientious manner or you aren't. Who you are as a person - and usually who that person was long before they became a pilot - often dictates how well they are going to practice the nebulous art we call airmanship. Only extensive training is going to change this, and by that I mean training rigorous far, far outside the norm of what current private pilot, or even commercial pilot currently mandates. Possibly some sore of aviation boot camp where students are broken first before rebuilding them as pilots might work - not something many would submit to. Flying, especially in the general aviation world, means freedom, and unfortunately freedom to some means doing whatever the f*ck they please regardless of the consequences for everyone else. It is the nature of human beings.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6438
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: Lurking

Post by Beefitarian » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:32 am

I don't know Shiny. I probably would not leave laundry lying around and fart in bed if I didn't fly with such woefully inexperienced flight instructors. The flight training industry needs a turn around.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Re:

Post by Shiny Side Up » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:42 am

Beefitarian wrote:The flight training industry needs a turn around.
Oh, it does need a turn around, but maybe not specifically for this reason. Society in general needs a turn around to make people better at airmanship, but then again being an ass may just be genetically coded into our species.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
flying4dollars
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:56 am

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by flying4dollars » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:11 pm

Meatservo wrote:Don't start this shit again. I can tell you what's going to happen. I will come on here blaming it on poor testing and Transport Canada, . will come on here and blame it on "kids these days" and Transport Canada, and "colonel Sanders" will come on here and show us a video of a wicked airshow performance. The thread will go to about three pages long until someone blames it on Air Canada, a fight will start, "colonel Sanders" will post another great video, and then it will be over. Then you'll go to work and get sandblasted.
LOL!!! Well played meat...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Doc
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 9241
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:28 am

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Doc » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:21 pm

I guess I'm just tired of seeing things like guys sweeping (which, btw, does SFA) under their props, then pouring water under them to keep the dust down, only to "warm" the engines, including increasing the power, and exercising the props, tossing the aforementioned gravel all over any airplane that's unfortunate enough to be parked behind them....and their props.....just so they don't have to wait for their temps with the pax on board, even thought it's PLUS 8 on the ramp?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
single_swine_herder
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 625
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by single_swine_herder » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:38 pm

Funny ... I just finished reading an article written in 1931 in a magzine called "Canadian Air Review" in which the author lamented that aviation was going to hell in a handbasket because "the real pilots" ..... barnstormers, seemed be losing the press coverage due to Mail Pilots and spoiled-brat Airline pilots undeservedly grabbing the attention of the public. Everyone who had a level head on their shoulders back in the day knew these guys weren't worth a hoot when it came to stick and rudder skills compared to the barnstormers, and were aviation hacks with zero decision making skills and lousy training.

It seems this debate has been around a long time.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
I WAS Birddog
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:38 am
Location: dude...I just walk the earth.
Contact:

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by I WAS Birddog » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:43 pm

I'd rather use the term "inconsiderate airmanship".

Like hypothetically perhaps for an example; a private helicopter pilot that owns his own construction business hovering low level around the apron kicking up sand, stones and dust onto other very expensive hardware just parked on the Shell apron in Sudbury practicing his turns while critical care Air Ambulance are trying to unload their patient.

Hypothetically speaking of course. It never happened. And it never happens often I've been told.
And it never happens often by a construction owner that flies a white and yellow Bell chopper.
....apparently. Never happened.
---------- ADS -----------
  

JayVee
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:24 pm

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by JayVee » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:36 am

Does anyone else think the following would constitite poor airmanship?

In Red Lake yesterday, the wind was favouring runway 08, 110 degrees at 11 knots. 20 degrees celcius.

Traffic inbound from Dryden (southeast) was a Metro just entering the zone for a right downwind on 08.

Traffic waiting to depart was a Metro from a different company, intending to depart 26 with a left turn southbound for Kenora.

When the traffic advisory was issued to the departing A/C, the FSS guy suggested a departure off 08 due to inbound traffic. The A/C said he'd still use 26 and proceded to back track for departure. Meanwhile, the lander is in the downwind for 08. The departing Metro launched off 26 and commenced an immediate left turn towards the path of the inbound aircraft.

Did he have the lander in sight? Don't know.
Was he a medevac? No.
Did it save him time? No, not with a longer backtrack.
Was it beneficial to increase the risk of a collision? No.
Does it make any sense to anyone? Doubt it.
Does the crew think it was a good decision? I sure as f@(& hope not.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
cdnpilot77
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2440
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by cdnpilot77 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:47 am

Sometimes there is some incredibly good airmanship as well.

This past wednesday in Pikangikum a North Star PC-12, piloted by the owner Mr. Cox I believe, was parked on the ramp when we pulled in and parked off his right wing. When his passengers arrived a few hours later and were set for departure, the PC12 pulled out of his parking spot (right next to the taxiway to the rwy on the North-West corner of the ramp) and instead of making a left turn onto the runway and sandblasting our airplane he made a right turn to the south end of the ramp, turned around away from all of the airplanes on the ramp and at that point commenced his taxi for departure!

This I thought was a very simple but very considerate gesture and a prime example of airmanship!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Chilliwackian
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Chilliwackian » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:26 pm

Why not name and blame. A thread on airmanship might be appropriate.

Give credit to the considerate, thoughtful and competent and reveal the inconsiderate, thoughtless, and incompetent. You never know it might give some a swelled head and smarten some up. If the latter category feel inclined to justify their actions they can be judged on this forum [ God help them ] by their peers and we may all learn something as no one is perfect.

Just recently I watched from a distance a helicopter arrive [ I have nothing against helicopters ] and hover-taxi to a space on the ramp between a Piper Cub and a 172. There were ailerons, flaps and elevators dancing madly and I wondered if the pilot even realised what he was doing.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Cough Syrup
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:02 pm

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Cough Syrup » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:27 pm

I blame all this shit on Air Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Siddley Hawker
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3351
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:56 pm
Location: 50.13N 66.17W

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Siddley Hawker » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:00 pm

We once blew Maureen McTeer on her ass with a G1. Does this constitute bad airmanship? I hasten to add I wasn't Captain. :D
---------- ADS -----------
  

Old Dog Flying
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:18 pm

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Old Dog Flying » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:27 pm

The fling-wing thing happens all the time. Recently in YCW I watched as aBell 206 landed on the apron near my AA1A and it was bouncing all over the place.

Barney C-GFXH
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Liquid Charlie
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:40 am
Location: YXL
Contact:

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Liquid Charlie » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:13 am

PC12 pulled out of his parking spot (right next to the taxiway to the rwy on the North-West corner of the ramp) and instead of making a left turn onto the runway
I'm shocked that this would be considered special since I figured it has been SOP and practiced long before I did it for the first time ---- maybe airmanship is getting worse -- :cry:
---------- ADS -----------
  

bornagain1340
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:03 am
Location: here...for now

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by bornagain1340 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:37 am

This is something that's been bugging me for a while and I'm glad to know that it isn't just me being overly critical of other people...I am getting older after all...
Example...an aircraft lands straight in to a 3000ft gravel strip with a 5-10kt tailwind (no overflying the aerodrome or anything like that...it takes too long), then to challenge him/herself even more tries to make it off by the taxiway (located midfield) using full reverse and brakes. The only thing I could see was the nose poking out of the giant cloud of sand/dirt/gravel. Then, while taxiing on the ramp for a parking spot, turns and blasts another aircraft with sand/dirt/gravel even though there was plenty of room to turn in from the other direction...
That's just one of many I've witnessed and can't wrap my head around the fact that they're completely oblivious to what they're doing! :smt021
---------- ADS -----------
  

767
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:21 am

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by 767 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:47 am

Brown Bear wrote:Talked to a pilot today who actually claimed he didn't care if his aircraft was "sand blasted", stating..."It needs paint anyway..." It was very poorly parked. He didn't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit.
Same guy stated an accident happened because "once the strip was in sight, a missed approach could not have been carried out because he wouldn't have GOT THE JOB DONE....." Seriously? Are some of you people really retarded??? BTW, THREE people DIED in the accident......and this guy figured it was all about "getting the job done...."
Comments welcome....I don't make this stuff up.
:bear: :bear:
Who is this guy? i want to use him as a reference for my next job.
---------- ADS -----------
  

shitdisturber
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2165
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: If it's Monday it's got to be somewhere shitty

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by shitdisturber » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:59 am

A few days ago, I was snoozing in the back of my airplane at a certain unnamed airfield in northern Quebec on the shores of Hudson Bay. The boffins were off doing boffin things so I was catching up on my sleep after a few hard days, when I was awakened by the sound of a pair of turbines pulling onto the gravel ramp next to me. When I came to enough to look around, there was the crew of a Twin Otter from an also unnamed airline walking away from their aircraft; which they'd parked with the wing over hanging the run up pad so that no one else could use it. :? As an editorial comment, the ramp is quite large so there was absolutely no reason to park there. They didn't even park so their engines were over the pad, unnecessary in a Twin Otter but at least it would have given some excuse for denying the pad to anyone else.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Shiny Side Up » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:58 pm

Complete fabrication. First, you've never ever had any "hard days" in your entire life. Second, no ammount of noise ever would have waken you up. Third, should it have been possible to wake you, there's no way that you could have roused yourself quick enough to witness the crew leaving. :D
---------- ADS -----------
  

shitdisturber
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2165
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: If it's Monday it's got to be somewhere shitty

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by shitdisturber » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:39 pm

Well they had to put in the plugs and lock it up first. 8)
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
'CauseTheCaravanCan
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:19 pm
Location: at home with two boys, suffering EPIC postpartum hairloss

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by 'CauseTheCaravanCan » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:06 pm

I hate crews that park on the pad, knowing they'll be there all day.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Big Pistons Forever
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5086
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:25 pm

Siddley Hawker wrote:We once blew Maureen McTeer on her ass with a G1. Does this constitute bad airmanship?
I would call that a public service :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Liquid Charlie
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:40 am
Location: YXL
Contact:

Re: Ah, Airmanship, Where Has It Gone?

Post by Liquid Charlie » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:01 am

I hate crews that park on the pad, knowing they'll be there all day.
it would all come down to whether it was a maxi pad a mini pad - new or used or if it was a Depends issue

LMFAOOOOOOOO

Image

Image
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”