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Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

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delay256

Post subject: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:55 pm

Rank 1

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:47 pm
Posts: 45

Someone mentioned this to me...

Do women have it easier when it comes to pilot hiring? Are there quotas in place for female aviators with major companies?

I dont hold an opinion on the issue but would love to hear your opinions.

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Nark

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:53 pm

Rank 10

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:59 am
Posts: 2589
Location: Grizzly Adam's neighbor.

Here is my 100% fact based opinion on your stirring question:

My company has hired nearly all of the women that have interviewed in recent months.

However, I should also mention we are pretty desperate for pilots. That said, if you have a heart beat you are pretty much hired; if you have a set of tits, bonus.

(we are trying to hire ~600+ pilots this year)

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bezerker

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:59 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:05 pm
Posts: 308
Location: YXY

I have a set of tits. Will they hire me?

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Nark

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:04 pm

Rank 10

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:59 am
Posts: 2589
Location: Grizzly Adam's neighbor.

Do you have a pulse?

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Ralliart

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:22 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:32 am
Posts: 897

Quote:

we are trying to hire ~600+ pilots this year

I'm just curious, what is the starting FO salary on your Embraer in the USA?

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Nark

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:24 pm

Rank 10

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:59 am
Posts: 2589
Location: Grizzly Adam's neighbor.

Avcanada doesn't like the fancy graph I copied.

1st year is $23
2nd is $31
3rd $36
4th $37 and stay's at 4 year pay.

Min guarantee is 75, but average lately is 90+.

Not too sure if the new hire $5000 bonus still applies.

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justwork

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:39 pm

Rank 4

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:59 pm
Posts: 229

I just barfed in my mouth a little.

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benoit.baril

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm

Rank 4

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:21 pm
Posts: 251
Location: CSF3

23$ for a year's work? :shock:

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RenegadeAV8R

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:48 pm

Rank 4

Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 10:51 pm
Posts: 281

benoit.baril wrote:

23$ for a year's work? :shock:

This is probably for 1/1000th of a year's work :wink:

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Ralliart

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:54 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:32 am
Posts: 897

$23 with average 75 hours per month = $1725 per month = $20700 per year (before deductions) to fly an Embraer??!!

Even if you maxed out every month at 90 hours that would still only work out to about $24840 per year (before deductions).

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YYZSaabGuy

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:01 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:32 pm
Posts: 341
Location: On glideslope.

justwork wrote:

I just barfed in my mouth a little.

Could be worse - have a look at this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82106. A princely $1,500 - $2,500/month for being on call 24/7 for a 3-month job during which you fly in and around severe summertime weather for hail suppression. I don't normally jump in on comp discussions as I figure it's a matter of basic supply and demand, but enough already: this one just seems beyond the pale. Am I missing something?

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flyinthebug

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:00 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: NWT

Although it is easier for the female pilot to get the position, she tends to have to work twice as hard to keep it. Ive found that women do become employed easier than their male counterparts, but when it comes to staying at said job its at least twice as hard for a female. Female pilots have to do things twice as good as a male pilot would for the exact same recognition. This is just a fact.

Ive hired a few female pilots over the years. Other then 2 that were absolute idiots (they would have been idiots male or female) they all worked out quite well. The females that are driven to succeed in a male dominated industry, usually attain their goals. One young lady who we hired as a flight instructor and PA 31 FO just did her check ride on a 777- 3 weeks ago and im like a proud poppa!

Its no different for women in aviation then for women in any other male majority (dominated) industry. If they work twice as hard as their male colleagues, they will progress at the same rate.

Females with bad attitudes and little `hands and feet`skills on the other hand...they get promotions and upgraded faster. Oh and if they crash, they also get a promotion and moved onto a larger machine. Ive witnessed this in our industry and its not make believe. Its just how it is.

Thats my 2 cents on the topic.
Fly safe all.

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Flybabe

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:16 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: On the transition

Watching this with interest.

FWIW, I have known several MALES that have bent metal that have been upgraded as well. I don't think gender makes a difference in that regard.

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Rowdy

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Rank 11

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:26 pm
Posts: 4039
Location: On Borrowed Wings

In initial hiring? Yes.. they have it easier. As far as the job goes, I think they still have it a bit harder, fighting stereotypes, the old school train of thought of a lot of the older generation of pilots and it seems like a lot of them have to prove themselves a few times more so than their male counterparts.

Pretty simple though isn't it? For every 100 males, theres 1 female in aviation and they will get the job over every last one of those equally qualified males until the ratio changes.

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Kingairdriver

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:54 pm

Rank 0

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:32 am
Posts: 8

A stat that comes to mind is 3% of ATPL's are held by females. 4% of Air Canada pilots are female.

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lilflyboy262

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 148

In a world where we have to prove that we are not bias towards either gender, race or religion, any minority will have it easier.
It is a fact.

All of the bigger companies enjoy standing up and patting themselves on the back with their diverse workforce thinking "didn't we do well".
As for me, all I care about is that they can do their job properly, so I can concentrate on mine. If they are good enough to be able to have a beer and a laugh with after work then that is a bonus.

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iflyforpie

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:54 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:25 pm
Posts: 5605
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Aside from being easy on the eyes and affirmative action, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference. Females have advantages and disadvantages that almost cancel each other out.

For example, a female will probably have an easier time breaking into the industry not only because they are so rare, but often they will have a bread winning partner that will allow them to pursue their passion more easily through the low time, low pay years. This was one of my flight instructors, my former chief pilot, a girl I used to go to school with, and a current co worker.

Also, the traditional disadvantage of the biological clock going off is a moot point early in the game. A girl leaving to have a family is no different than any pilot heading off to big tin.

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Rowdy

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:06 am

Rank 11

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:26 pm
Posts: 4039
Location: On Borrowed Wings

iflyforpie wrote:

Females have advantages and disadvantages that almost cancel each other out.
.

Bingo!

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benoit.baril

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:09 am

Rank 4

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:21 pm
Posts: 251
Location: CSF3

Quote:

iflyforpie wrote:
Females have advantages and disadvantages that almost cancel each other out.

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floats4fun

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:38 am

Rank 2

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:46 am
Posts: 63

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:06 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1225
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

Oh ho ho ho!! I can't wait until "snoopy" gets here!

It's not possible to work twice as hard as I do. According to "flyinthebug" therefore, I don't need to worry about a woman taking my job.

My personal opinion is that women on average typically have different areas of interest than men. I say "typically", meaning there are exceptions either way. Personally I don't think I have seen anyone trying to make it difficult for a woman to succeed simply because she's a woman, but as Snoopy pointed out to me one day, maybe you need to be a woman to notice these things. I honestly think one of the things standing in the way of there being more female pilots is the fact that there are more women than men out there who couldn't care less about aeroplanes and choose to direct their endeavors along other paths more suited to their areas of interest. Women and men are different. Anyone who believes this not to be the case has their head in the sand. The majority of women don't give a crap about aeroplanes. To those women who do choose to be pilots, I am willing to do all that I can to see they get the same opportunities as men, but please don't accept that passing grade you don't deserve from an instructor who thinks you're cute (shame on the instructor) or the manager who gives you a job in the office instead of on the ramp because you're a girl, or the king air instead of the twin otter because you're small. Choose what it is you want to do and make them give it to you by earning it.

I have known female pilots who are very capable, and some who are complete duds, in about the same proportion as men. The difference is that the duds who don't advance are always willing to believe that they have been discriminated against. To be fair the male duds also make silly excuses for their lack of ability, so in the end I guess I have no opinion at all about hiring women. They do tend to smell nicer.

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JMACK

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:12 am

Rank 4

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:24 pm
Posts: 221
Location: YUL

justwork wrote:

I just barfed in my mouth a little.

I just pee'd a little and shot Scotch and soda out my nose..................F......Me!

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Jack In The Box

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:57 am

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 am
Posts: 93

Flybabe wrote:

Watching this with interest.

FWIW, I have known several MALES that have bent metal that have been upgraded as well. I don't think gender makes a difference in that regard.

What on earth does that have anything to do with whether they have it easier or not?

Yes I think they have it easier with hiring, in the name of political correctness. No, I do not think they should, and I do not think female pilots are "worse" then male pilots. I have flown with many very good ones, and I have seen many very bad ones. Same with men.

Just remember, It's only discrimination if it's not against a white male.

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Sleeve of Wizard

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:43 am

Rank 2

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:31 pm
Posts: 69

An easier time getting started in the industry???? Please.... This is not the case...

Though larger companies are "required" to hire "minorities," by the time a woman makes it to the experience required to interview with Air Canada or Westjet, she has paid her dues many times over.

I can't comment on a female needing to work harder to "keep" her job at a major airline, she definitely needs to work 10 times harder to get half as much as her male counterparts at the start of her career.

There are several companies in Canada which are known not to hire female pilots. Opportunities are often limited. Men don't have to deal with this issue. With respect to major airlines, my understanding is that if all other factors are equal, they will hire a female over a male.

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gianthammer

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:22 am

Rank 2

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:10 am
Posts: 89

100% fact!!!! Even though their periods attract bears and their brains are a third the size of ours!!!

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