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Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Moderators: bandaid, sky's the limit, lilfssister, ahramin, Sulako, just curious, weather, sepia, North Shore

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Tiny Tyke

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:35 am

Rank 3

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 126
Location: The big smoke.

An HR person at a large 705 operator told me that she would like the number of female pilots at this company to reflect the number of females in Canada. As in, 50%ish ladies in Canada, 50% ladies flying at the company. I questioned her on it...she didn't like that very much.

My GUESS is that the root problem lies in the fact that they want X number of females in that position from an HR perspective/optics.

For smaller 703 jobs, I think that they would more than likely have a more difficult time of getting hired. Think of my old boss asking, "How is she gonna hold onto the floatplane on a dock on a windy day?? She only weighs 100lbs!!"

Keeping the job/s and drama while at work are a separate issue.

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Flybabe

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:31 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:16 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: On the transition

Jack In The Box wrote:

Flybabe wrote:

Watching this with interest.

FWIW, I have known several MALES that have bent metal that have been upgraded as well. I don't think gender makes a difference in that regard.

What on earth does that have anything to do with whether they have it easier or not?

Jack - chill. That was in response to flyinthebug's comment above mine, where he said :

Quote:

Females with bad attitudes and little `hands and feet`skills on the other hand...they get promotions and upgraded faster. Oh and if they crash, they also get a promotion and moved onto a larger machine. Ive witnessed this in our industry and its not make believe. Its just how it is.

And, for the record, I was not challenging the comment, I was reflecting how, in 15+ years of flying, I've seen it the other way as well.

The rolling of the eyes is not necessary.

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crazy horse

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:20 am

Rank 1

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:32 pm
Posts: 27

Well said Flybabe. I wish we didn't even have to ask the question.

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flyinggirl

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:02 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 144
Location: halfway up a mountain

Giant Hammer - with a handle like that you have peaked my interest! :roll:

Give us ladies some credit....I am sure I was told once that our brains were 1/2 the size of mans, not just a mere 1/3!!! :shock:

I dont have much to say (not interested in a forum fight!) but rather just my own experience...... I had to work like mad on the dock, the fbo's wherever and whenever and it took me over 2 years to get my first job..... I worked with a lot of pilots from the "old school". I worked hard, didnt complain, learned and took all that experience and put it in my pocket. Just ask JC!!!
I have managed to fly, make babies, help change starter gens, bake cookies, study hard when I needed to, never bend an airplane, dock a single on floats without help and all because that's who I am! Come on, boy or girl... some will excel and some wont! Its just life..... I hate this question of whether females have it easier or whether they get promoted because they have boobies rather than on merit. I hate the fact that we as humans judge so often without really knowing why we judge. Its not mindful........ As far as whether the airlines hire women for their quota... i dont know, i dont care. I am happy in my 4 engined bird.

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:34 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1225
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

I bet fewer women get fired for showing up to work hung over...

Just to stir the pot a little, why don't we see male nurses agitating to raise the percentage of men in nursing? I remain convinced that if we canvassed to determine the number of people in Canada who would LIKE to be a pilot, (not those who are or who tried and failed) there would still be a relatively low percentage of women. Whether this is due to "nature vs. nurture", I have no idea, but if your goal is to have 50% of pilots in Canada be female, you need to not only start pushing women into flying, but also to start discouraging men from being interested.

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slowstream

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:54 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:15 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Asia

flyinthebug wrote:

Although it is easier for the female pilot to get the position, she tends to have to work twice as hard to keep it. Ive found that women do become employed easier than their male counterparts, but when it comes to staying at said job its at least twice as hard for a female. Female pilots have to do things twice as good as a male pilot would for the exact same recognition. This is just a fact.

Ive hired a few female pilots over the years. Other then 2 that were absolute idiots (they would have been idiots male or female) they all worked out quite well. The females that are driven to succeed in a male dominated industry, usually attain their goals. One young lady who we hired as a flight instructor and PA 31 FO just did her check ride on a 777- 3 weeks ago and im like a proud poppa!

Its no different for women in aviation then for women in any other male majority (dominated) industry. If they work twice as hard as their male colleagues, they will progress at the same rate.

Females with bad attitudes and little `hands and feet`skills on the other hand...they get promotions and upgraded faster. Oh and if they crash, they also get a promotion and moved onto a larger machine. Ive witnessed this in our industry and its not make believe. Its just how it is.

Thats my 2 cents on the topic.
Fly safe all.

I agree 100% with flying the bug! I think they do get the jobs easier than men often because the company can use and take advantage of the hiring visible minorities. But women do have to work harder to keep the job, to gain any respect and to advance especially in the entry and mid levels of the industry. By the time women reach major 705 operators I think for the most part its a balanced playing field for the most part .

As for genetics and balance, its arguable that maybe women are just smarter by staying out of this industry. I don't think you will see balance in certain sectors like aviation, nursing or schooling for very long time, genetics and genetic characteristics play a role as does the opinion of society.

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Kilo-Kilo

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:46 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:47 pm
Posts: 617
Location: West Coast

Of the 67 applicants for a random job, one is a female. The next day, whose name is the recruiter going to remember? Whose resume details will be easy to recall? The woman will stand out as unique in the pack and a breath of fresh air at the sausage fest. Gender issues be damned, its like spotting a cat at a dog show.

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Jack In The Box

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:30 am

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 am
Posts: 94

Flybabe wrote:

Jack In The Box wrote:

Flybabe wrote:

Watching this with interest.

FWIW, I have known several MALES that have bent metal that have been upgraded as well. I don't think gender makes a difference in that regard.

What on earth does that have anything to do with whether they have it easier or not?

Jack - chill. That was in response to flyinthebug's comment above mine, where he said :

Quote:

And, for the record, I was not challenging the comment, I was reflecting how, in 15+ years of flying, I've seen it the other way as well.

The rolling of the eyes is not necessary.

Apologies flybabe, I missed that.

While i realize it is merited in this day and age, I think it's silly we even have to have this thread as a discussion.

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Sulako

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:52 am

Rank Moderator

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:01 am
Posts: 2121

myth

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Just another canuck

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:59 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 1831
Location: The Lake.

It's called a cockpit, not a box office. :lol:

Just kidding ladies.

Do female pilots have it easier? I think no.

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ant_321

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:34 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:43 am
Posts: 88

Nark wrote:

Avcanada doesn't like the fancy graph I copied.

1st year is $23
2nd is $31
3rd $36
4th $37 and stay's at 4 year pay.

Min guarantee is 75, but average lately is 90+.

Not too sure if the new hire $5000 bonus still applies.

And I thought less than $30 000 for a 1900D fo was ridiculous.

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Nark

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:30 pm

Rank 10

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:59 am
Posts: 2589
Location: Grizzly Adam's neighbor.

ant_321 wrote:

Nark wrote:

And I thought less than $30 000 for a 1900D fo was ridiculous.

We've been trying to negotiate a better contract since 2007.

Then you'd be really pissed to know Great Lakes pays their 1900 captain's about $30 year.

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Flybabe

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:39 pm

Rank (9)

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:16 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: On the transition

Jack In The Box wrote:

... I think it's silly we even have to have this thread as a discussion.

Now THAT, I agree with absolutely.

Apology accepted, Jack

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iflyforpie

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:12 pm

Top Poster

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:25 pm
Posts: 5612
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Yes. The real question should be: Do ginger pilots have it easier?

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'CauseTheCaravanCan

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:00 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 76
Location: in the kitchen, baby on my hip, one handed typing

The thought that girls have it easier in aviation is only a sentiment I've seen carried by the biggest douchebag
pilots I've met. The same douchebags that will take home whatever is left at the Palomino at 2am on a Monday.

I'm not saying I've had it hard either. I don't think I HAD to work 2 times as hard as the guys, but
I know I wanted to anyway. Work is great exercise, depending on the type of flying you do.

I have had a hard time advancing to big machines on floats, could be circumstantial, or it really could be a
lack of finesse on the dock, that the owners think will be exaggerated with something with a bigger tail. Just due to
unforeseen variables, I haven't had the chance to find out.
I know I've seen guys get pulled into the water by an Otter/Caravan in a big wind.
I've also heard of wee little girls moving an Otter around the dock in winds without ever really exerting herself. Just using her brains.

Doesn't matter now anyway, I find myself dealing with something that no man does.
Pregnant. Lucky for me, it's a cake walk.
And suddenly chasing metal isn't so important anymore.

I remember when I started a forum about passengers touching things in the cockpit, A pot-stirrer on here gave me shit for
mentioning that I was a girl. Referring to it as a "crutch." Would he take scraps home from the Pal? You be the judge.

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Jack In The Box

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:11 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 am
Posts: 94

Caravan, CONGRATULATIONS on your "great expectation!" and much luck to you!

Even if women DID have it easier in aviation, at least we don't have to deal with pregnancy :wink:

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'CauseTheCaravanCan

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:32 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 76
Location: in the kitchen, baby on my hip, one handed typing

Thanks bunches!
Transport clips my wings Aug 15th, which is fine, I'll be too big to reach the back of the pod by then anyway!
It's a boy!!
:smt040

Just another canuck wrote:

It's called a cockpit, not a box office.

That reminds me of a time my friend Ben and I were flying towards each other and he said "You got me on the Box there?"
and I said "I don't have a Box" on 22.8 heheh
also, if I came across as embittered in my above post, I don't mean to. 99.9% of the male pilots I've met, are
very cool, respectful and very easy to make friends with.

I think as long as you never play the "Oh it's 'cause I'm a girl" card, no one else will.

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Meatservo

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:21 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 am
Posts: 1225
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

I love sailboats. If you have one, I would really like to see it. In fact, it is likely that if you have one, we could be pretty good friends. However, when we are working together, all I really care about is whether or not you can handle an aeroplane and not do anything stupid. If you have the temerity to try and get a job working with me and it turns out you can't do these things, we will probably not be friends whether or not you happen to have a sailboat.

I feel pretty much the same way about vaginas as I do about sailboats. See above.

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flyinhigh

Post subject: Re: Do female pilots have it easier? Myth or Fact?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:18 pm

Rank 10

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:42 am
Posts: 2021
Location: my couch

Here's a Fact.

Of the dozens of women I have flown with there is only 1 that I would not want to fly with again, which is probably the reason I fired her the second day on the job.

All the ladies I have flown with have been exceptional in every regard, there hands and feet have been awesome, there smart, and dedicated. The best part is that not one pulls the "because I am a women card" ever.

I have saw ladies park beavers and otters on high windy days without issue, were I have had trouble with a 172, its called leverage. Learn fast how to use the weight you got and life is simple.

Just yesterday, I had a freight run up north. My FO was a lady who with me had a combined weight of 270 lbs, guessing she was about 120. We got to work, not knowing this girl from a hole in the ground and how she would be, surprised and surpassed any exception that I would have had for myself. She was throwing 31/2 foot long 100lb box's. I was impressed, best yet she knew how to fly very well as well.

Moral, of my little rant is anyone that bashes women in aviation in my view is just a sexiest biggot, that has no clue what there missing out on.

Caravan, Congrats on the baby, it'll truely change your life in a amazing way. Your absolutely right, kids change everything. I was in the airlines for 5 years, recently said screw it I wanna be home every night. The view from 38K to 25K is the same, the only difference is the location.

Chase the lifestyle/Family life you want and everything else will fall into place.

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