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Bede
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:28 pm 
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How do the maintenance costs compare on the C185 and C180? I know the 185 is considerably more but I'm looking for some accurate budgeting numbers. Plane would be used over 100hrs per year.

Also curious why the maintenance costs are so much higher on the 185.


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Bushav8er
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:04 pm 
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carb verses injected (in part)


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sheephunter
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:00 pm 
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yes, IO-520 or maybe IO-550 vs O-470 is the only apparent difference I see (don't know about prop. maintanence cost comparisons) and that is not entirely true with all the STC'd engine conversions for the 180's as well the older 185's did have the 470. Maybe there's more on the "check-list" or maybe you guys with the 185's just have way more money than us with the 180's. So is it myth or fact that the maintenance is higher on the 185 vs. 180?


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culver10
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:12 pm 
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I maintain 180, 182, 185 and 188's and the annaul inspection is about the same on all of them, I cannot see why the 185 should cost anymore? I also work on blue and teal NG's and they cost way more to maintain!! :)


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Colonel Sanders
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:10 pm 
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IO-520 is maybe $5k more to overhaul than O-470,
and fuel burn is higher, but ... I'd take the 185 over
the 180 any day, esp if it's got an IO-550.


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iflyforpie
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:07 pm 
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The 185 will be higher on the firewall forward portion only for aircraft of similar vintage and condition.

The IO-520 has more expensive components, a shorter overhaul life compared to some O-470s, a higher overhaul cost, fuel injection with two fuel pumps, and a lot more messing around with settings.


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Colonel Sanders
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:01 am 
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Worth it for the extra power, and no carb icing!


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Bede
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:08 am 
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Can anyone shed some light on a budgeting figure for maintenance?

Has anyone ever actually put 6 people in a 185? The weight seems to work (1500# useful load) but it seems pretty unrealistic.


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Antique Pilot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:20 am 
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I have owned a Cessna 180 for 20 years. I have kept track of every dollar I have spent operating the aircraft. My average hourly maintenance costs over the 20 years has been $235.00. My total hourly average costs (fuel, parking, insurance, and maintenance) has been $375.00. The aircraft was in very nice shape when I bought it but I did have to overhaul the engine ($30,000), then several calendar prop inspections (approx $3000 each time). Also installed Monarch long range fuel tanks ($10,000 plus labour). Oh yes, new interior and major radio upgrades. One year my maintenance bill was $50,000 and I flew it 47 hours that year so my hourly maintenance cost that year was $1063.00. Even if you have a low time engine be prepared to shell out $30,000 + if it suddenly starts to make metal like mine did. If that happens you will have to overhaul the prop as well because the metal filings will have circulated through the prop. Even if there isn't a thing wrong the annual usually costs me around $2500.00. I have been going to the same shop for 20 years and I feel that they are fair.

The same shop services a lot of 185's and they seem to require a lot more cylinder changes and exhaust repairs. Those 185 engines seem to run hotter than a 180 which may create problems.

As for operating a 185 with 6 people I don't think it work very well on floats unless they are all pretty light. Doable perhaps but you will cook that engine on a long take off run especially if you have to abort and create a bunch of sudden cooling.

Hope this helps.


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ozone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:43 pm 
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A 180 with the pponk stc will be more comparable to a 185 and you can still burn mogas. Can't burn mogas in a 185. Fuel burn and overhaul life is better too with the pponk.

http://www.pponk.com/HTML%20PAGES/engine_overview.html


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Taiser
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:31 am 
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Quote:
my hourly maintenance cost that year was $1063.00


EGADS!!!! :smt107

My buddy has a 185 and the seat rails are shot again...it's under an AD I think, anyhoo that a few other minor issues and his bill is going to be over 5k!!!

No wonder certified aircraft for private use is getting to be an insane proposition, nobody can afford them anymore unless you're flying a J3!!!


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BGH
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:43 am 
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I've owned C-FBGH a 1970 Cessna A185E since 1983.It was operated commercially out of Campbell River on cap 3000D's since new before my purchase & it had 9771.5 hours on the airframe & 1175 on the IO 520D engine when I bought it & it had(still has) the 86 inch 2 blade on it.

Since puchase I've replace 1 fuel bladder & the insurance replaced the other.Had all the belly skins & station 90 replaced,rear horizontal stab rebuilt (twice,once by insurance) & put a sportsman stol on the wing.Bought a factory reman IO 520 D(with steel cylinders) from the boys in Kamloops,which needed a top at 400 hours because of soft guides(continental wouldn't warranty it either) & it just got going again after another soft exhaust guides episode( funny,at the next 400 hours).I've overhauled the prop a few times ,but the last one for 10 years cost about $7000 due to a corroded dome.

My first engine went 1800 hours without any trouble & was pulled due to high oil consumption caused by sitting.This one was flagged at 20 hours the first time & I no longer trust it.

I've flown it about 1500 hours - it would have been more but engine repairs & legal costs have been expensive.Good performer on floats,great performer on wheels.I've flown it IFR & VFR across Canada,with long range bladders it has amazing range.I once flew vrf from Pitt Meadows to Saskatoon & had 1 1/2 hours left in the tanks when I landed.

I should add that it was damaged in the filming of the movie snow dogs(right wing & horizontal stab & tail feathers).

Insurance on wheels was about $2200 cdn,on floats about $4600.Parking outside on grass @ cypk about $700/year.
Annuals about $1300 + parts,elt,pitot/static about $500 every other year.Radios are king kx155's & have required a couple of thousand for repair in the last 6 years( I was pulling them every 2 years just before IFR renewal to have them inspected).Fuel at ypk is $1.90/litre & I plan on .9 litres/minute.

It's easy to fly on floats & wheels.I would agree with the above poster that I wouldn't put 6 people in it on floats & I really wouldn't put 6 in it on wheels unless you are not going far,or really want them to feel the pain of discomfort,pilot & 3 is the best setup.

Daryl


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sheephunter
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:04 am 
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Are you meaning that if it wasn't certified you wouldn't bother fixing the seat rails? That's why uncertified aircraft cannot demand the same dollar on resale.


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Blakey
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:50 pm 
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BGH wrote:
I've owned C-FBGH a 1970 Cessna A185E since 1983.


So that's where your user name came from? I thought it stood for "Big Giant Head"! I just thought you were a big Third Rock fan.


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Big Pistons Forever
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Antique Pilot wrote:
I have owned a Cessna 180 for 20 years. My total hourly average costs (fuel, parking, insurance, and maintenance) has been $375.00.

.


I owned a one quarter share of a C 180 on floats for 4 years. When I sold my share for the same price I paid for it, my hourly costs also worked out to exactly $ 375 per hour.

Float planes are not cheap to own :cry:

I think there is a lot of misinformation about the True costs of owning an aircraft usually provided by people who have never owned a plane. Unless you fly over 200 hours a year renting will always be cheaper.

Most airplanes that are for sale are on the market because after years of scrimping big unavoidable maintenance bills are looming. Those "great deals" will almost invariably turn out to be a nightmare for the sucker that buys it.

Buy an airplane because you want all the advantages of ownership, not to save money and if you do buy an airplane buy the nicest one you can find, it will be the cheapest to own in the long run.


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skymarc
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:00 am 
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Ive flown my C185 with 6 a lot, mostly young childrens in seat 5-6. Mostly on wheels, ive done it a few times on floats with 5 but always my 3 young kids in the back 3-4 seat, I wont put anyone in seat 5-6 on floats because if the planes overturn, egress would be challenging in the 3 rd row.

As for maintenance cost between a C185 vs 180, I woud say not much difference as fuselage is mostly the same, engines are not much different mainaining a 470 or 520/550.
My IO550 is a great performer and never worry about carb ice. LOP a 185 will burn 13-14 gph, pretty close to a 180 engine. It does easily 140 kts TAS with a cargo pod on 800 tires at those fuel burns.



Bede wrote:
Can anyone shed some light on a budgeting figure for maintenance?

Has anyone ever actually put 6 people in a 185? The weight seems to work (1500# useful load) but it seems pretty unrealistic.


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