RCAF History Forum

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Tom H
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70 years ago October 25th

#1 Post by Tom H » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:10 am

25 October 1942, RCAF Group 6 Bomber Command was formed.
I would hope all Canadians take a moment to reflect on this date.

Canadian bomber pilots and crews had been operating and flying missions from the start of the Second World War, but on this date a Canadian Bomber Group was at last formed. Though Group 6 did not start combat operations till January 1 1943 it is still a significant date as it marks the start of dedicated Canadian operations as a group.

Over 10,000 Canadians were lost in Bomber Command (all groups) during the Second World War in service to our country and in the effort to free Europe from the NAZI tyranny that had overrun a population of millions on the continent.

Picture if you will the many thousands of young Canadians that served in all Groups of Bomber Command, typically 18 to 22 years old, all volunteers. Flying into the black of the European night skies to be hunted by night fighters, shot at by huge 88mm diameter anti aircraft guns like ducks in a fall sky. Limited radio, no GPS, only very rudimentary radar and Navigation aids in aircraft with huge piston engines and construction techniques that had only been put into production short years before.

10,000...paid the ultimate price for freeing the European continent, 10,000 paid the price for Canada's place in today's world as an influence, a leader and as an example of freedom and democracy.

On the 70th Anniversary of Group 6 Bomber Command I would ask we all take a moment to think of all the young Canadians that challenged the dangers of Europe' night skies for freedom.

A special thanks to the members of 408 Squadron here in Edmonton, 408 Squadron was one of the original squadrons of Group 6 and continues it's service to Canada today as a Helicopter Squadron. 408's Squadron Motto says all that needs said...

For Freedom

In the Spring of 2013 the Alberta Aviation Museum will be unveiling an exhibit dedicated to Group 6 Bomber Command as part of the celebration of the RCAF Group 6 70th Anniversary. Till then please visit the Bomber Command Museum of Canada or the RCAF Group 6 websites for more information on Group 6 Bomber Command.


Thomas Hinderks
Executive Director
Alberta Aviation Museum
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Old Dog Flying
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#2 Post by Old Dog Flying » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:12 am

Thanks for the reminder Tom. Just a nit-pick comment; it should be referred to as 6 Group.

Barney Dunlevy
RCAF Ret'd
http://www.barneysairforce.com
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Moose47
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#3 Post by Moose47 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:54 am

G'day Barney

I'll see your nit-pick and raise you two nit-picks.

It is actually No. 6 (RCAF) Group.

No. 6 Group's first operation was on the night of the 14th/15th of January, 1943. A force of 14 aircraft comprised of Vickers Wellingtons and Handley Page Halifaxes took off to bomb the U-Boat pens at Lorient, France. Eleven aircraft bombed the primary target. Two returned early and one went missing.

Vickers Wellington B. Mk. III s/n BK165 and coded OW-F of No. 426 'Thunderbird' (B) Squadron piloted by Flying Officer George Milne of Calgary, Alberta, departed R.A.F. Station Dishforth, Yorkshire at 22:37 hours and was never seen again.

The crew was comprsied of five members of the R.C.A.F. and one from the R.A.F.

Cheers...Chris
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#4 Post by Tom H » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:31 pm

Nit picks accepted and appreciated gentlemen.

The important thing is 270 members have read this post and will, at least for a moment, remember.

Thanks for the corrections

Tom H
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#5 Post by Tail hook » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:16 pm

Thanks for the reminder.
My Grandfather flew Halifaxes from East Moor. 432 squadron
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Moose47
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#6 Post by Moose47 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:38 pm

"My Grandfather flew Halifaxes from East Moor. 432 squadron"

Would mind saying who your grandfather is?

Cheers...Chris
Director
Halifax 57 Rescue (Canada)
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80ktszzz
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#7 Post by 80ktszzz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:42 pm

I will always remember.... So many have given for us..... Thank you
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RCAF History Forum

#8 Post by Moose47 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:43 pm

G'day

Just curious if anyone is interested in a Royal Canadian Air Force history forum?

Cheers...Chris
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#9 Post by cdnpilot77 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:58 pm

Yup
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Doc
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#10 Post by Doc » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:32 pm

Rather have a Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader history forum.....
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#11 Post by shitdisturber » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:55 pm

I was all for it even before Doc showed his apparent disinterest.
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#12 Post by BibleMonkey » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:17 pm

"......Vickers Wellington B. Mk. III s/n BK165 and coded OW-F of No. 426 'Thunderbird' (B) Squadron piloted by Flying Officer George Milne of Calgary, Alberta, departed R.A.F. Station Dishforth, Yorkshire at 22:37 hours and was never seen again......"

How do you find out more about George Milne ( and the rest of his crew etc)?

I found this:
---------------------------------------------
http://www.canadaatwar.ca/memorial/worl ... rge-milne/

"..Biography/Accounts
No additional text information is avalable on this individual just yet. If you have more information please contribute. .."

"Members of the Royal Canadian Air Force that fell on the same day as George:
Barnett, Bricker, Cochran, Fisher, Kenny, Maynard, Mcquillin, Miller, Pollock, Richards, Robert, Stewart, Sullivan "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there somewhere where I can find out more about these men?

Where they were from, trained...etc..anything
Thank you all.
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#13 Post by BibleMonkey » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:00 pm

Good idea-it would save a bit of time for those interested in RCAF history.

Now I click on your user name ( Moose 47 ) and then select " Search user’s posts " to read something about our aviation military history.
I do the same with Tom H and a few others....
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us lurkers......
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#14 Post by YYZSaabGuy » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:53 am

Absolutely.
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#15 Post by fleet16b » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:45 am

Chris

Excellent idea !!!!
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#16 Post by Colonel Sanders » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:47 am

Yuppers

RCAF has had a huge impact on aviation in Canada.
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#17 Post by Old Dog Flying » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:41 am

Good idea Chris..very close to my heart.

Barney
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Moose47
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#18 Post by Moose47 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:38 am

"Is there somewhere where I can find out more about these men?"

Give me a couple of days to see what I can dig up.

I can tell you that George's brother Pilot Officer Harry David Milne was killed on the 25th of October, 1942. He was at the R.A.F. Officers Hospital at Torquay, when it took a direct hit from a German bomb.

Cheers...Chris
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#19 Post by Moose47 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:53 am

G'day

I'll start off by posting a monthly column I did for the Canadian Forces newspapers across Canada.
It is called 'This Month In Royal Canadian Air Force History'

I normally have photos with each story but for the life of me I can not seem to post any of them on here. Any help would be greatly appreciated

This Month in Royal Canadian Air Force History

AIRCRAFT TAKEN ON STRENGTH IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER

DAY YEAR TYPE TOTAL

07 1924 Sopwith 1F.1 Camel - 3
20 1927 Fairchild FC-2 - 15
01 1929 Fairchild FC-2L - 6
07 1929 Fairy IIIF Mk. IV GP - 1
10 1929 Beltana CH-300 Pacemaker - 1
17 1929 Curtis-Reid Rambler Mk.II - 2
11 1933 Hawker Audax - 1
15 1936 Blackburn Shark Mk.II - 7
29 1937 Avro 626 - 12
23 1939 Lockheed 10-A - 15
27 1939 Fleet Model 16R Finch Mk.1 - 27
21 1940 Handley Page H.P. 54 Harrow Mk.1 - 2
25 1941 Douglas DB-7B Boston Mk.III - 1
12 1942 Fleet Model 50K Freighter - 2
18 1954 Sikorsky S-55 (H-19) - 15
05 1960 Lockheed C-130B Hercules - 4
13 1961 McDonnell CF-101B Voodoo - 56
13 1961 McDonnell CF-101F Voodoo - 10

AIRCRAFT STRUCK OFF STRENGTH IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER

DAY YEAR TYPE

30 1928 Avro 504K
22 1934 Keystone Puffer
08 1935 de Havilland DH-75A Hawk Moth
19 1935 Hawker Audax
28 1936 Fairchild KR-34
30 1936 Avro 616 Avian Mk.IVM Major
12 1943 Hawker Hind
04 1944 Bristol Type 152 Beaufort Mk.1
24 1944 Westland Wapiti Mk.IIA
03 1945 Fairchild F-24R Argus
05 1946 Fairchild 51
15 1947 Waco PG-2A Glider
03 1966 Canadair CL-2 North star Mk.1

The Plan
On the 10th of October, 1939, an announcement was made stating that Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand and Australia were in principle agreement to the establishment of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan.

Crying Wolf
RCAF Squadron Leader J.D. 'Doug' Lindsay was no stranger to aerial combat. As a Spitfire pilot with No. 403 Wolf Fighter Squadron, he was awarded the coveted Distinguished Flying Cross after shooting down three ME-109s in a single sortie. Lindsay would end the war with seven aircraft destroyed and five damaged.

Between November 1950 and July 1953, Lindsay was one of 22 Canadian pilots attached to the United States Air Force flying combat missions in Korea. He flew North American F-86 Sabres with the 39th Fighter Interceptor Squadron-51st Fighter Interceptor Wing-Fifth Air Force. By Lindsay's 20th mission he was affectionately known as 'MiG Magnet'. This moniker stemmed from the five previous engagements with North Korean MiG 15's. After his 20th sortie, Lindsay was given a bottle of 'Mission Whiskey' and made a Flight Leader. Up to this point Lindsay's record was two MiG 15's damaged, both on the 5th of September 1952.

On October the 11th, Lindsay, flying his 29th mission, was leading a flight of four Sabres on patrol when he noticed 12 MiG 15's above him. As he applied power to climb into the Communist jets, the MiG 15's tried to cut the Sabres off from their base. Lindsay singled out the four trailing aircraft and led his flight into the enemy formation. In the ensuing melee he bagged one MiG, which turned out to be the third of the day for the 39th FIS and sixth of the day by all Sabres sorties. Lindsay was to damage another MiG on the 25th of October and shoot down a second North Korean jet during his 49th sortie on the 26th of November after an encounter with 21 Red bandits. Squadron Leader Lindsay left Korea after flying 70 combat sorties for a total of 73 flying hours. For his courage and leadership, the 'MiG Magnet' was awarded the American Distinguished Flying Cross.

A Big Lifter
The famous Lockheed C-130 Hercules was formally introduced into the RCAF on the 5th of October with four B model aircraft serial numbers 10301, 10302, 10303 and 10304 going to RCAF Station Namao Alberta's No.435 'Chinthe' Transport Squadron. They replaced the squadron’s faithful but aging Fairchild C-119G Flying Boxcars as its premiere heavy hauler.

Thirty Fourth Anniversary
The first of 190 Canadair built CL-41A jet training aircraft was officially named the Tutor by Mrs. Dunlap, wife of Air Marshal C.R. Dunlap CBE CD Chief of Air Staff, at a ceremony held at Canadair's Cartierville, Quebec plant on the 29th of October, 1963. The first production Tutor was handed over by Canadair president Mr. J.G. Notman to Deputy Minister of National Defence E.B. Armstrong, who then turned the aircraft, serial number 26001, to A/M Dunlap.

Europe’s Finest
On October 1 1952, No.1 Air Division Europe or simply known as the 'Air Div' was formed as part of the 4th Allied Tactical air Force with temporary headquarters on the Avenue Montaigne just off the champs-Elysees in Paris, France. A new permanent home was found at the Chateau de Mercy near Metz. At it's pinnacle, the 'Air Div consisted of 12 squadrons (8 flying the Canadair Sabre in the day interceptor role and four flying the Avro CF-100 Canuck in the all weather role)

The squadrons were divided between four Wings:
No.1 (Fighter) Wing Marville, France; No.2 (Fighter) Wing Grostenquin, France; No.3 (Fighter) Wing Zweibruken Germany and No.4 (Fighter) Wing Baden-Soellingen Germany. Also supporting the Air Division was No.30 Air Material Base at Langar near Nottingham, England and No. 61 Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron based a short distance from the Air Division's headquarters at Metz.

As of October 1 1962, slightly more than 6,400 RCAF personnel were assigned to No.1 Air Division, plus some 270 more at various higher NATO formations. It is estimated that roughly 25,000 Canadian officers, airmen and airwomen served in Europe in the preceding decade since No.1 Air Division's inception.
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#20 Post by Mapleflt » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Great gen, give this man his OWN forum and shoot any hijacker.
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#21 Post by Darkwing Duck » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:24 pm

Moose47,

I am a HUGE military history buff, but anything to do with our Canadian Military, especially the Air Force, is a subject I cannot get enough of. Please submit what you can. Also could be a great forum on where to get novels and such that may be lurking on some shelf of a dusty library.

Cheers...

Duck
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#22 Post by Tom H » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:41 pm

Great idea

Moose47

I'll put up what I can when I can to give you a hand

Tom Hinderks
Alberta Aviation Museum
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Re: 70 years ago October 25th

#23 Post by Tom H » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:43 pm

There is a good book we keep open to the public in the Museum

A thousand shall fall

If you have names it has a comprehensive list of wartime RCAF losses

I also have a vested interest in the BCATP and Bomber Command.

My father was an instructor on Ansons at St. Jean Que and from late 42 to 46 flew Lancasters as RCAF attached to RAF.

Tom H
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#24 Post by fleet16b » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:45 pm

Chris
Good starting post on the Air Force

Knowing my background , you know how much I will be interested in this Forum.
I will especially interested in anything and everything involving the IRFC Training during WW1 and the
BCATP training in WW2
This will quickly become the Forum I live in :smt040

"The Plan
On the 10th of October, 1939, an announcement was made stating that Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand and Australia were in principle agreement to the establishment of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan."

To add to your post. Dec 17 1939 , the agreement was finalized and signed thus the BCATP officially
came into existance
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Re: RCAF History Forum

#25 Post by ptc » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Great idea
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