RCAF History Forum

[Tom H]

Great idea

Moose47

I'll put up what I can when I can to give you a hand

Tom Hinderks
Alberta Aviation Museum

[Tom H]

There is a good book we keep open to the public in the Museum

A thousand shall fall

If you have names it has a comprehensive list of wartime RCAF losses

I also have a vested interest in the BCATP and Bomber Command.

My father was an instructor on Ansons at St. Jean Que and from late 42 to 46 flew Lancasters as RCAF attached to RAF.

Tom H

[fleet16b]

Chris
Good starting post on the Air Force

Knowing my background , you know how much I will be interested in this Forum.
I will especially interested in anything and everything involving the IRFC Training during WW1 and the
BCATP training in WW2
This will quickly become the Forum I live in

"The Plan
On the 10th of October, 1939, an announcement was made stating that Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand and Australia were in principle agreement to the establishment of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan."

To add to your post. Dec 17 1939 , the agreement was finalized and signed thus the BCATP officially
came into existance

[ptc]

Great idea

[Moose47]

Operation Manna

Avro Lancaster bombers of the R.C.A.F.’s No. 405 'Vancouver’ (B) Squadron, which up until the 28th of April 1945 had been acting as pathfinders with No. 8 (Path Finder Force) Group, took part in a unique aerial re-supply operation dubbed 'Operation Manna'. A large portion of the western Netherlands was still under German control by the last week of April 1945. The Dutch citizens were in critical need of food and other supplies. Many had already died as a result of the Germans forced starvation. Time was of the essence. Each passing minute meant more deaths. A temporary truce was arranged with the local German commander to allow the aerial lifeline to proceed.

The relief operation commenced on the 28th of April 1945 with de Havilland Mosquitoes of the P.F.F. marking drop zones for Lancasters of No.'s 1, 3 and 8 Groups of R.A.F. Bomber Command. It continued un-interrupted until the 7th of May 1945. When everything was said and done, Lancasters had flown 2,835 sorties with Mosquitoes flying an additional 124. A total of 6,672 tons of food was dropped during ‘Operation Manna’.

And that folks, is part of the reason the Dutch love us so much. I served with a women who was a young girl in the Netherlands at the time. She and her family were reduced to eating tulip bulbs and grass. Among the food stuffs Canadians, Brits and Yanks dropped, were Hershey and Cadbury chocolate bars. She gorged herself so much on chocalate she became sick and has not eaten any since then.

Cheers...Chris

[Tom H]

‘Operation Manna’.

Thanks Moose47

My Dad flew 6 missions on Operation Manna

Tom H

[Moose47]

Pigeons in the Royal Canadian Air Force

The Early Days
The use of the pigeon by Canada’s air force dates back as far as 1922. These birds were used as a means of communicating from the dense boreal forests and far northern reaches of the country while conducting forestry patrols and photographic surveys. Their importance led to expanded use by the Royal Canadian Air Force. By 1929, 15 pigeon-loftmen were responsible for looking after 9 lofts.

Pigeons Go To War
The pigeon’s wartime contribution to the R.C.A.F. would be a significant one. When Canada declared war against the Axis powers (Germany and Italy), a recommendation was put forward for the immediate expansion of the pigeon service. As the war carried on, the pigeon service grew. As of March 1944, the strength had seen an increase to 30 lofts. They were divided into 14 on the West Coast and 16 on the East Coast. The R.C.A.F personnel establishment was one officer and 102 airmen.

Winged Messengers
During the Second World War, two pigeons were carried in separate waterproof carriers aboard each aircraft that operated over the ocean. In the event of an emergency situation that saw the aircraft ditching (landing on the water) or on landing in a barren area, the wireless operator (radio operator) would send out an S.O.S. by Morse code. It was more advantageous if the S.O.S. could be sent while still airborne. If the radio was U/S (unserviceable) and there was time, one bird was released with a message explaining the situation and a latitude and longitude of their last known position. All crew took special training in the release method of the pigeons while in flight. The last thing you wanted to have happen is a pigeon striking the aircraft immediately after release. It would be a messy situation.

If the wireless operator did manage to send out an S.O.S. then the pigeons were kept onboard the aircraft until the aircraft landed on the water. The crew would take the pigeons into the dinghy (inflatable life raft) and subsequently release them where they could direct rescuers to their location. The same thing applied if they crash-landed. The pigeons would be released from the carriers and hopefully fly back to their lofts where a rescue would be immediately started.

With the cessation of hostilities in August 1945, the days of the pigeons in ‘blue’ were numbered. The R.C.A.F.’s unique pigeon service was officially disbanded in May 1946.

So the question arises what do you do with clapped out pigeons? Here's a tasty answer to your winged dilemma.

Pigeon Pie

Ingredients

Serves 5 - 6
5 fl oz (150 ml) red wine
2 tab!espoons (30 ml) port
6 juniper berries, crushed
2 tablespoons (30 ml) vegetabie oil
4 pigeons
1 oz (25 g) butter
1 tbsp (15 ml) vegetabie oil
1 onion, finely chopped
4 rashers streaky bacon, rinds removed, chopped
12 oz (350 g) . steak, trimmed and cut into 1 inch (2.5 cm) cubes
6 oz (175 g) flat mushrooms, thickly sliced
few sprigs of parsley, chopped
1/2 tsp dried thyme
12 oz (350 g) shortcrust pastry

Method

1. Mix together wine, port, juniper berries and oil for the marinade and season with freshly ground black pepper. Remove breasts from the pigeons and cut into large pieces. Put into a non-metallic dish, pour over the marinade, cover. Leave in fridge overnight.

2. Melt the butter and oil in a frying pan, add the onion and bacon and fry gently for 5 minutes. Remove with a slotted spoon, reserve.

3. Remove pigeon from the marinade, drain. Reserve marinade. Increase heat and fry the pigeon and the steak in batches, sealing on all sides.

4. Put the pigeon, steak, onion and bacon into a 2 pint (1.25 litre) pie dish and top with the mushrooms. Sprinkle with herbs, pour over the reserved marinade.

5. Roll out the pastry to 1/4 inch (5 mm) thick, put a pie funnel into the dish. Cut a 1/2 inch (1 cm) strip of pastry and place around the edge of the dish. Brush with water and top with the remaining pastry. Use the pastry trimmings to decorate the top of the pie.

6. Bake at Mark 4 (180°C) 350°F for 20 minutes, then reduce the heat to Mark 2 (150°C) 300°F and cook for a further 1 1/2 hours. Cover the pastry with foil if it browns too much during cooking.

"Bon apetit fellow Avcanucks!"

Cheers...Chris

[sidestick stirrer]

Let me add my vote for this to be a separate forum and it would become the one that I visit first.
A PMQ brat, born while my father was instructing at the radar school in Clinton, Ontario, we followed him to the gunnery school in Macdonald, Manitoba, the Mitchell OTU in Saskatoon, 4Wing during the transition fromSabres and Clunks to Starfighters, finally to Namao for the C-119's and Hercs, where I became old enough to join 418 Squadron.
A great fan of the BCATP, I have gathered every book I can find on the subject, the latest being "Aircrew Unlimited". Also read most biographies involving WW2 aviation but admit my interest wanes after they begin operations, finding their training more interesting.
I hope this idea takes flight!

[sidestick stirrer]

On my Bucket List is to land on as many of the old BCATP airfields as possible. When taking people flying from Boundary Bay, part of the experience that I wanted them to appreciate was that wonderful old hangar.

[fleet16b]

On my Bucket List is to land on as many of the old BCATP airfields as possible. When taking people flying from Boundary Bay, part of the experience that I wanted them to appreciate was that wonderful old hangar.

So far my old Finch has landed at:

#4 EFTS Winsor Mills ( based there during RCAF service)
#10 EFTS Hamilton
#9 EFTS St. Catherines
#6 SFTS Dunnville
#3 EFTS - #4 AOS London
#5 SFTS Brantford
CFS Trenton
TTS St Thomas
Welland (relief Field)
#12 EFTS Goderich
RNAF Toronto Island
#1 AOS Malton
#7 EFTS Windsor
#20 EFTS Oshawa


Flown over:

#4 WS Guelph
#1 B&G Jarvis
#4 B&G Fingal
#16 SFTS Hagersville
#14 SFTS Aylmer
#1 SFTS Camp Borden
Beamsville (RFC School of Aerial Fighting)

[Colonel Sanders]

On October 1 1952, No.1 Air Division Europe or simply known as the 'Air Div' ... At it's pinnacle, the 'Air Div consisted of 12 squadrons (8 flying the Canadair Sabre in the day interceptor role and four flying the Avro CF-100 Canuck in the all weather role)

The squadrons were divided between four Wings:
No.1 (Fighter) Wing Marville, France; No.2 (Fighter) Wing Grostenquin, France; No.3 (Fighter) Wing Zweibruken Germany and No.4 (Fighter) Wing Baden-Soellingen Germany

What a glorious period of RCAF history.

[Colonel Sanders]

You guys might like this: cockpit footage from a Mosquito
flying formation on a Vampire:



PS I find flying formation in a twin engine aircraft
a little weird - it's easy to develop a split-throttle
power setting. I like having a guy in the right seat
to fiddle with the throttle to even out the MP, which
I am far to busy to look at.

[SAR_YQQ]

PS I find flying formation in a twin engine aircraft
a little weird

I can sympathize with you there. Close formation with four engines and a 8 second lag time on all power changes can be equally tricky.

[Tom H]

On my Bucket List is to land on as many of the old BCATP airfields as possible. When taking people flying from Boundary Bay, part of the experience that I wanted them to appreciate was that wonderful old hangar.

So far my old Finch has landed at:

#4 EFTS Winsor Mills ( based there during RCAF service)
#10 EFTS Hamilton
#9 EFTS St. Catherines
#6 SFTS Dunnville
#3 EFTS - #4 AOS London
#5 SFTS Brantford
CFS Trenton
TTS St Thomas
Welland (relief Field)
#12 EFTS Goderich
RNAF Toronto Island
#1 AOS Malton
#7 EFTS Windsor
#20 EFTS Oshawa


Flown over:

#4 WS Guelph
#1 B&G Jarvis
#4 B&G Fingal
#16 SFTS Hagersville
#14 SFTS Aylmer
#1 SFTS Camp Borden
Beamsville (RFC School of Aerial Fighting)

fleet

Seems you're working on the east and we are working on the West

As pilot of the Alberta Aviation Museum's Spirit of Edmonton Biplane we have visited in Alberta:
Edmonton (#16EFTS/#2)
LaCombe's auxillary field
Penhold
Innisfail
Airdrie
High River
Vulcan
Brook's auxiliary field
Cooking Lake (which was a more generic RCAF point)
as well as over flying Pearce and DeWinton (can't land there anymore but you sure can see them)

Then weather got in the way.

In Saskatchewan:
Yorkton
Dafoe
Saskatoon
North Battleford and it's auxiliary to the North

In Manitoba:
Winnipeg
Portage La Prairie
Neepawa
Russel (auxiliary field)

Eventually we want to have visited all the Prairie BCATP sites

Tom H

[Tom H]

My family is currently sorting through my father in laws estate, he was a tailgunner on Lancasters and a guest of the 3rd Reich for a period of time as a prisoner during the Second World War.

Going through some old notes I found this on a hand written note and thought considering we are approaching Remembrance Day I felt I should share it.

1939 to 1945 RAF Bomber Command
400,000 bombing raids
56,000 Aircrew killed
10,000 were Canadians
8,000 aircraft missing

For every 100 airmen on operations
51 killed in operations
12 became POWs
9 killed in training
3 injured in crashes
1 evaded capture

24 survived physically unharmed

This was only Bomber Command

Lest we forget

[Old Dog Flying]

I've landed at Regina, Moose Jaw, Weyburn, Estaven, Assinnaboia(to visit Harry Whereatt), Swift Current, Davidson, Saskatoon, Penhold , Yorkton . And overflown many of the now unuseable fields: Buttress, Caron, to name a few.

Being from Southern Ontario: Windsor(where I learned to fly), London, Camp Borden, St.Thomas, Greenwood NS, Debert, Moncton, Summerside...too many places..too many memories..too many years


Barney

[Beefitarian]

Tom, I was just discussing High River the other day.

I learned this year their airport is not on the Origional BCATP field as the town is now surrounding the old base. You can see the outlines and two original buildings of the BCATP field on google. It's in the industrial area near the intersection of Highway2 and the overpass attune south edge of town. It appears that might be the second location if this is correct. http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/bcatphighriver.html
As it describes the grass field of 1921 being North East of the town.

They have recently been using Vulcan now named Vulcan/Kircaldy field for skydiving. It is a few miles south of the town and new strip. There was a hanger there for sale afew years ago. I was very tempted as they were only asking $80k but it quite likely would have cost more than that to repair the roof as there where a few sections missing. I certainly love those buildings. Funny, they were intended to have a ten year life span or something. Many of them are going strong.

How did you miss Claresholm?

[Tom H]

Hey Beef

I know the current High River is not the original, but thanks for pointing it out.

My father was one of the first BCATP classes through High River and (with permission) I have walked the site of the original airfield. Dad passed many years ago and it was sorta spooky walking the site with my then 14 year old daughter as I could almost feel him looking over my shoulder.

Flew into RCAF Vulcan on our 2010 Tour of Alberta BCATP bases and it is an amazing place and the gent that now owns it is a great guy. It was another spook show as we flew in, the light was just right and at a distance the base looking shiny and new.

We missed Claresholm, Fort MacLeod, Medicine Hat and Lethbridge due to weather, front rolled in and we had to head back North to Edmonton...but we are going to get to them.

Thanks Tom

[chu me]

The reason that I get off my ass every election day and go out to vote, is to honour these men ( the ones that I knew personally and those that I did not). They made the ultimate sacrifice even if they survived the war. So I vote in honour of that sacrifice made on my behalf.....even if I don't think there is anyone worth voting for I still go.

Thanks for the reminder Thomas.

[Beefitarian]

It's interesting, seems like there's a few that I find out about every time I look into it or talk to someone.

That link I posted talks about a sub-base at Eckville in the twenties.

My list of BCATP fields as pilot includes,

• Lethbridge
• Claresholm
• Regina
• Swiftcurrent
• Brandon
• Penhold
• Abbotsford
• Medicine Hat

Tofino, Calgary and the Edmonton Muni if they count. I'll have to do many edits to add or move some.

In the case of bases this guys site looks pretty good.

http://www.militarybruce.com/history/ba ... ry_49.html