Privatize TC Civil Aviation?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:57 pm

Someone made an interesting suggestion that to get any quality of service and accountability from TC Civil Avaition we should privatize it.

Wouldn't that be nice...even if not really very likely.

Just imagine having the pleasure of actually having someone answer your concerns as well as being accountable for their actions, not to mention being treated with some sembalance of decency instead of like we are just peons unworthy of even the most basic sign of respect.

A typical example of TC's attitude to us their client is the silence I have gotten from the top guy at TC flight training.... in the " If in doubt " thread.

One wonders at the seeming arrogance that is being shown by this person, knowing two facts.

(1) Who I am, and that my concern was public knowlege simply because of the hundreds of people who read these forums.

(2) There is no way that he or his office can deny that he received my e-mail......if he is not in there is an automatic out of office response to e-mails and a contact person for you to get in touch with if needed.

However I know the reason they are able to just ignore anyone they choose to.............

It is because they can, no one ever makes any real complaint to force these .......... to do their jobs.

Does anyone know where to find their " Code of conduct" guidelines?

They are Government employees and there has to be a " Code of Conduct " somewhere that is availiable for public scrutiny, I'd love to read it.

If you do find it paste it here so we can "all" read it.

. .

Your " If I were in charge " Person.

Louis · Post by **Louis** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:22 pm

Cat, isn't the problem here much more a matter of accountability than privatization itself? Some private corporations have fairly closed structures and little room to external scrutiny. And even if transport were to be privatized, aren't the same habits and mentalities likely to follow along with the process?

I'd try writing Mr. Tony Valeri with your concerns and see what he has to say... He's had a few months to familiarize himself with his minister and probably got to know the people in civil aviation in the meantime.

IMO, the current government has enough trouble with other issues to probably want to handle problems in aviation before they get out of hand (and in the media) and further deteriorate their image.

Here's some contact info to get you started:
Hon. Tony Valeri

Constituency: Stoney Creek
Province: Ontario
Telephone: (613) 992-6535
Fax: (613) 992-7764
Email: Valeri.T@parl.gc.ca

Hill Office
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6

Constituency Office
99 Highway 8
Stoney Creek, Ontario
L8G1C1

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:32 pm

Thanks Louis :

There are two TC inspectors and myself actually going through this process right now.

It is presently at the level of using our MP's to ensure it gets attention.

If ever there was a time in Canadian history to bring accountability it is now.......

In our wildest dreams we could never have imagined we would have such a poster child as Alfonso Gagliano on TV to show the public how deep the problem is.

Yup, for sure Paul Martin will have to sacrifice some more of the dead wood in positions of power...........I would be happy to help him identify a few in TC Civil Aviation within walking distance of his own office.

Cat

FA28 guy · Post by **FA28 guy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:34 pm

If TC was privatized it would probably be run like AirCanada

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:15 pm

Worse the post office.

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:22 pm

So you're saying it would improve?

CD · Post by CD » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:59 pm

Actually, it's not all that new an idea. There are a number of parts of Civil Aviation that have already been privatized over the years...

Nav Canada

CBAA Private Operator Certificate (BAOSSS)

Airport Divestiture Status Report
GTAA
YVR
Aéroports de Montréal
etc...

The Australian's also went this route back in 1995, so it's certainly possible that it will occur here in Canada.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Overview

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:44 pm

Interesting you should bring up CASA CD.

I am all to well aware that forming opinions based on ones own short experience with any big organization is not really very indictive of the overall peformance of the structure.....

However I did have the oportunity of applying for approval to train Australian pilots on an Australian registered airplane and issue type ratings a couple of years ago.

Like all Government bodies there was a few months of paperwork and background checks to be done, but it really went smooth.

Then I spent almost a month with them in Portugal including a CASA repersentative. there were many, many problems with airworthiness issues as well as problems with dealing with another country ( Chile ) however at no point did we have any difficulty with CASA, they had their guy there to oversee it and it got done. Also all direct communication with Australia resulted in quick fair assesment of the problems and approval to continue.

The one worry he had was CASA making the decision to mimic Canada by going to the CAR's , he offered his impressions of the Canadian's who had spent time in Australia giving advice.............he was worried that they would end up in the same clusterf..k that CAR's are in Canada.

Right now I am in the same process of receiving authority to train and issue type ratings to Dutch pilots on a Dutch registered airplane...ditto same as CASA, no problems in dealing with them.

When I pointed out this to our illoustrious Director General, Civil Aviation, and asked him to please explain to me why I would be treated fairly and professionally in foreign countries and treated like an enemy of the state in my own country, his answer in a letter to me was so insulting that I still have this overpowering urge to walk into tower C and ram his letter right up his ass.

Should I??

Would it make for good TV footage on the 11 O'clock news?

Anyhow as to privatizing segments of TC Civil Aviation, maybe it might improve the way it works........???

Cat

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:04 pm

Shiny Side Up wrote:So you're saying it would improve?

You've been licking the sugar off the stale donuts again haven't you? I mean really, who besides the post office says they're going to reduce services and up the rates. Ok besides, navcanada, transport.....

duplicate2 · Post by **duplicate2** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:27 pm

There seems to be an assumption here that if TC was privatized, there would be an improvement in service. The only way I would understand that is if there is some competition involved, prompting TC to treat their "customers" better in order to retain their business. Can anyone explain how there would be competition on the regulatory business? Even if it were for long term contracts, would you really want some new group taking over every 10 or 20 years and trying to figure everything out all over again? And if this is set up in an non-competetive manner, what's the impetus for change?

In addition, who would regulate the regulators? From my understanding of the NavCanada privatization and the delegating of certain functions to CBAA, TC still basically keeps an eye on them to make sure they aren't cutting costs to the point of compromising safety, something the public would demand. Look at the outcry against ATC privatization in the US, a country that stereotypically prefers private business to government. There would still have to be someone to watch the new private regulator (new name: TranCan

), adding an additional level of bureaucracy. No one wants that, right?

I guess these questions must have been answered by the Australians, but I'm not getting it.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:34 pm

TC is slowly privatizing much of their domain. Just look at the Company Check Pilot program and now the Contract ACP program and the Freelance ACP program. Incidently, does anybody know how many FACP's there are in this fair land and can they make a living at it?. My read on this is somewhere there has to be a sugar daddy to keep your own PPC valid. It would take a lot of checkrides if you had to go out and do it on your own. I can see it working if you were gainfully employed but doing it as a moonlight.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:22 pm

A few years ago, I would have thought that this concept is "nuts."

Now, I see successes. In Canada the Canadian Business Aircraft Association (CBAA) seems to be quite happy with their self-regulation that has Transport Canada's blessings. Seems a little like a fox guarding the hen house arrangement, but it seems like it is working.

Yet, I am fundamentally opposed to the concept of privatizing everything. Sorry, but we don't live in an Anarchist society. We vote and pay taxes for a government to provide us certain services. If we work towards privatizing everything, fine, then please don't have us pay taxes. It doesn't work both ways though IMHO.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:25 am

Well Panama, which do you prefer, anarchist or arrogant?

If you run back up to the top and read that we are unable to get answers from our tax paid employee is that better?

At least if he was working for private enterprise he would get his ass kicked out of the building for unacceptable customer service.

Cat

ndb · Post by **ndb** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:37 am

There is so much arrogant government corruption and abuse that this is hardly even newsworthy:

http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art ... N/34781029

Nothing we haven't seen before, and will see again real soon.

Nobody seems to much care about the $120 million stolen from DnD, either:

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-5172570.html

Radwanski, HDRC, EH-101 cancellation, the gun registry, it goes on and on. Why would anyone care about a little malicious abuse of office at the DOT? It's just so typical of our arrogant government, which so obviously holds the taxpayer in complete contempt.

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:45 am

shitdisturber wrote:
Shiny Side Up wrote:So you're saying it would improve?
You've been licking the sugar off the stale donuts again haven't you? I mean really, who besides the post office says they're going to reduce services and up the rates. Ok besides, navcanada, transport.....

At least the post office gets things to me in a reasonable amount of time, and the lady at least smiles when she sells the stamps.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:07 am

Shiny Side Up wrote: At least the post office gets things to me in a reasonable amount of time, and the lady at least smiles when she sells the stamps.

My mail lady?? Lost my mail.. They just take the day's batch of mail and drop it on the first lift to Europe..

I should have chipped in the extra $5 and sent it FedEx. It's been in transit for 2 weeks. The country that I sent it to, had time to reply with their mail service asking where the documents were. =(

My response "Canada Post"..

"Understood".. =( Think I'll be sending the docs again.

As for another organization being "worse" than TC, I would doubt that.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:51 am

Cat Driver wrote:Well Panama, which do you prefer, anarchist or arrogant?

If you run back up to the top and read that we are unable to get answers from our tax paid employee is that better?

At least if he was working for private enterprise he would get his ass kicked out of the building for unacceptable customer service.

Cat

Hi Cat,

I see I didn't explain myself well. Actually, I prefer neither.

What I would like to see is a return to grass roots amongst the civil service, the recognition being that . . . . that is exactly what they are! Civil Servants. Let "Serve the People" or "Serve the Motherland" be their battle cry! Why can we not have this? Must our only incentive for excellence be money (this is the idea behind privatization)? Can we not be driven simply the goal of doing it right and doing the right thing-- whatever it may be?

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:17 pm

Shiny Side Up wrote:
shitdisturber wrote:
Shiny Side Up wrote:So you're saying it would improve?
You've been licking the sugar off the stale donuts again haven't you? I mean really, who besides the post office says they're going to reduce services and up the rates. Ok besides, navcanada, transport.....
At least the post office gets things to me in a reasonable amount of time, and the lady at least smiles when she sells the stamps.

The reasonable time is a fallacy, it takes longer to get mail now with their improvements than it did when it was the pony express! As for the lady smiling at you; it's because it's a small town, she's old, horny, and thinks you're cute!

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:21 pm

Shitdisturber, by reasonable amount of time we mean weeks, not the six months to a year it takes TC to approve anything.