Cost of Living vs. Wages

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Kestral
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Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Kestral »

Was watching the News last night and saw a report on how the cost of food will be going up yet again in 2013. Also stated that many products: meats, Veg, Bread etc..., have all gone up 30-60% since 2002. I was surprised by these figures to be honest, and I do understand that there is inflation and that prices do rise, but in 10 years for things to double?? Wow!

And, as we all know, housing costs, especially in larger cities, have gone up exponentially. A lot of this of course is in line with rising fuel costs over the years. Anyway I guess the point I'm trying to make is that wage increases, in aviation, just haven't followed suit. When I was a young keener back in the late 80's, early 90's trying to get my start I certainly wasn't making very good money. However, I was able to make it work because gas was 40 cents a litre, I shared a nice 2 bedroom apartment downtown in a major city for $250 a month, and on a Friday night I could go down to Earl's and have a beer, burger, and appetizer for $20 including tip. And yes they wore little black dresses back then as well. :)

Today though all these costs have doubled, or in some cases tripled, yet the wages are pretty much the same, or only slightly higher as what I was getting paid 20+ years ago at the same company in the same city. Unless you have parents helping you out financially it must be a struggle for those starting out??
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shimmydampner
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by shimmydampner »

Well in order for the shareholders to see a profit, and the fat cats to make bonus, unfortunately you will not be getting a raise.
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Masters Off »

My father and grandfather worked at the same large industrial company for 33 an 40 years each, respectively. When my father retires, he will get an identical retirement package to what my grandfather got (by that time) almost 28 years different. Not one penny more, no inflation accountability, nothing. If anything, things are on the decline, with an increase of hours for lower wages. Guys starting now have half the pension of my father, if that. The company has moved to contractors. This, not too long ago, was one of Canada's top 50 companies.

Currently, my instructing friends make it by. Barely, but they do. Honestly speaking, I know I few people who live off minimum wage, single parent, and they can't win. I have no idea how the system works, when the minimum isn't high enough to be stable. We all know single parenting is on the rise, and cost of living is on the rise, but when you need $15-20/hour just to live in community housing and have food in the refrigerator, and all you make is $10.25 (Ontario)...well, that's not good.

What's the answer?
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Ivan42
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Ivan42 »

This is a tough question...

The increases are in part due to supply...the US has experienced two severe droughts for two years in a row. That has an impact on food prices. I'm not well versed in agriculture but haven't prices been rising steadily over the past decade? Oil is a good example of this as well. Prices doubled in just a decade.

The fact that wages haven't kept pace is a bit more mysterious. That may have something to do with productivity levels, an increase in the labour supply...rising income inequality is a factor as well.
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akoch
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by akoch »

You can count pretty firmly on 7-10% inflation rate over the last 10 years here. Unless you believe the "official" 3% number.
There wages were growing at about 5% rate overall over the same period.
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Post by Beefitarian »

I couldn't remember the year but I remember everything going up about 30% suddenly. My brother in-law was married just after so I was able to look at a picture album on Facebook. Handy.

The end of 2007 beginning of 2008 I think they blamed a hurricane or something.
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

Kestral wrote:Was watching the News last night and saw a report on how the cost of food will be going up yet again in 2013. Also stated that many products: meats, Veg, Bread etc..., have all gone up 30-60% since 2002. I was surprised by these figures to be honest, and I do understand that there is inflation and that prices do rise, but in 10 years for things to double?? Wow!
Not sure where the reporter was sourcing data, Kestral, but if you're interested, Statistics Canada provides all kinds of inflation data at http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 1a-eng.htm, including both national and by-province results. The national food CPI, for instance, increased 30.5% from 2002 to October 2012, for an average of just over 3% annually (although admittedly costs of particular food products may have increased more than the average). The October 2011 to October 2012 increase was 2.0%, a bit higher than the 1.7% increase for "energy" over the last year. Over 10 years, energy prices have increased nationally by 59.5%. You can also get data on specific products (e.g. there's an alcohol and tobacco index), and sort by province and metropolitan area if you're inclined.
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Meatservo
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Meatservo »

Food is pilot fuel. When the price of fuel goes up, that cost should be passed on to the consumer. Therefore the cost of pilots should go up. The airlines should already be comfortable with this concept. Bill your employer for a "food surcharge".
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trey kule
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by trey kule »

Bill your employer for a "food surcharge".

Every so often someone posts a piece of aviaition wisdom, so profound, that it makes the hours and hours of wading through some of the drabble worth it.

This is just such a piece of wisdom. I must however work at putting more than a "food surcharge", on my bill. Perhaps a harmonized HST/GST, and FST.... Brilliant idea..
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by co-joe »

It always pisses me off to see stats can figures like inflation that don't include fuel or accommodations. So basically their cost of living inflation doesn't include the cost of living.
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Colonel Sanders »

You're shocked that the government is lying to you?

Good heavens.
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Driving Rain »

Both the CCP and OAS have a cost of living allowance (cola). If the cost of living goes up 2% in a year they go up too.
Based on the consumer price index.
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/isp/ ... /oas.shtml

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/isp/ ... icpp.shtml
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Strobes »

1. Cost of Food: Cost of food is estimated to rise approx 3-5% in 2013 due to the dought in the American Midwest in 2012. Most heavily rising costs will be affecting meats and anything that is derived from corn. Which lately is about 70% of a typical North American Diet. Perhaps its time to make small changes to your diet.

2. Cost of housing: Do not worry about this one, just wait. Canadian housing market bubble is deflating, prices are expected to come down 5-20% in the next 2 years. Vancouver and Toronto are heavily hit right now, mostly SFH in YVR and condos in YYZ. Montreal is starting, so is Ottawa. Prairie cities will decline as well, though not as much, and with a rather significant delay - up to 2 years in lagging. So just accumulate money and wait.

3. GET THE HELL OUT OF DEBT. DEBT IS BAD, IT MAKES YOU A PAWN TO THE BANKS, IT REDUCES YOUR ABILITY TO BUY A HOUSE, GET GROCERIES, FURTHER YOUR CAREER. STOP PUTTING MONEY ON THE CREDIT CARD, STOP TAKING MONEY FROM A LINE OF CREDIT, PAY IT OFF NOW. The debt model is archaic, it wreaks havoc on countries which are highly indebted (PIIGS, USA, etc). The 2010's is the decade that will favour those who are debt-free and liquid! (That means with easily sellable assets. TFSA, RRSP, Stocks, ETFs, etc. NOT Real estate). I paid off 40k in debt on a 703 job in 3 years. Anyone who puts their mind on it can do it. If you live on Flight Instructor salary, you gotta make sure you live on a flight instructor salary. If you're a rampie, make sure you live on rampie salary. You're young, you have TONS of time to live large, no sense racking up debt that will come back and bite you in the *ss later.

I leave you with this:
Greaterfool.ca
Daveramsey.com
earlyretirementextreme.com
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Mach1
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Mach1 »

It is not just the piloting profession that has not seen a wage increase since the 1980's, it is all workers. The only group to see pay increases have been the executives of companies... their wages have increased approximately 600% in that same time period.
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Slats
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Slats »

Careful. Judging by some posts in another thread it would appear that everyone here is OK with that and believe that if you aren't, it's because you are some sort of lazy subversive commie revolutionary who is just jealous of the hard working executives' well deserved 600% increase.
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Mach1
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Mach1 »

Slats wrote:Careful... it's because you are some sort of lazy subversive commie revolutionary who is just jealous of the hard working executives' well deserved 600% increase.
Welcome the proletariat comrade. :)

Having a strong and healthy middle class is the only way to have a functioning economy. It benefits the rich every bit as much as it benefits the rest of society.

The results of wealth being concentrated into ever smaller groups of people, while the majority grow increasingly poor and hungry have been well documented throughout history. Wealth redistribution always happens eventually, sometimes at the point of a sword... and balance is restored to the universe... for a while.
Strobes wrote: 3. GET THE HELL OUT OF DEBT. DEBT IS BAD, IT MAKES YOU A PAWN TO THE BANKS, IT REDUCES YOUR ABILITY TO BUY A HOUSE, GET GROCERIES, FURTHER YOUR CAREER. STOP PUTTING MONEY ON THE CREDIT CARD, STOP TAKING MONEY FROM A LINE OF CREDIT, PAY IT OFF NOW. The debt model is archaic, it wreaks havoc on countries which are highly indebted (PIIGS, USA, etc). The 2010's is the decade that will favour those who are debt-free and liquid! (That means with easily sellable assets. TFSA, RRSP, Stocks, ETFs, etc. NOT Real estate). I paid off 40k in debt on a 703 job in 3 years. Anyone who puts their mind on it can do it. If you live on Flight Instructor salary, you gotta make sure you live on a flight instructor salary. If you're a rampie, make sure you live on rampie salary. You're young, you have TONS of time to live large, no sense racking up debt that will come back and bite you in the *ss later.
Good advice. Debt is the new slavery... indentured servitude to the bank. You eventually wind up working just to keep up with the debt servicing, and when that happens, you have to ask yourself if you are really a fee person anymore.
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BC04
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by BC04 »

Also stated that many products: meats, Veg, Bread etc..., have all gone up 30-60% since 2002. I was surprised by these figures to be honest, and I do understand that there is inflation and that prices do rise, but in 10 years for things to double?? Wow!
Don't be mistaken here, this is not a doubling of the original cost, it is an increase of 30-60% of the price. If something was originally $10 it is now $13-16 not $20.
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

co-joe wrote:It always pisses me off to see stats can figures like inflation that don't include fuel or accommodations. So basically their cost of living inflation doesn't include the cost of living.
Not sure what you're pissed about: the "All Items" index on the StatsCan site includes fuel and accommodation. There are also separate indices published for "Food", "Shelter", "Transportation", and "Energy", among others.
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Kestral
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Kestral »

BC04 wrote:
Also stated that many products: meats, Veg, Bread etc..., have all gone up 30-60% since 2002. I was surprised by these figures to be honest, and I do understand that there is inflation and that prices do rise, but in 10 years for things to double?? Wow!
Don't be mistaken here, this is not a doubling of the original cost, it is an increase of 30-60% of the price. If something was originally $10 it is now $13-16 not $20.

You are correct. Bad bad math on my part. I guess I was being a bit too dramatic and caught up in the moment. Regardless though I think many of us in Canada, no matter what industry we are employed in, are going to have to make a significant lifestyle change. Possibly more akin to people who live in European countries. They tend to drive smaller cars, take more public transit, and live in smaller homes or apartments (Flats).
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Re: Cost of Living vs. Wages

Post by Bede »

co-joe wrote:It always pisses me off to see stats can figures like inflation that don't include fuel or accommodations. So basically their cost of living inflation doesn't include the cost of living.
That's not true. You are thinking of the core CPI which excludes fuel and food.

http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb-bmdi/do ... V1-eng.htm
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl ... dm=8&dis=2
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