The F-35 is not dead

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trampbike
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by trampbike »

PM sent. Cheers
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MrWings
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

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teacher
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by teacher »

I've also said this in a previous post.
I find it a very hard sell that 65 F-35s will be a better solution for Canada that offers more flexibility and capability than 80 Advanced Super Hornets, 36 stealth UCAVs and a dozen Growlers. A total force of 128 aircraft in all. Seeing as the future of air combat is surely unmanned, hedging Canada's manned fighter buy, which is supposedly going to have to be relevant for the next 30-40 years, with some extremely stealthy UCAVs makes a ton of sense. It also provides a medium endurance, low-observable surveillance platform to provide everything from intelligence gathering to network connectivity functions for Canada's "total force."
An interesting read:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-ri ... 1587492909

Also an interesting read:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/pierre ... 1592445665
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frosti
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by frosti »

Oh christ, quoting these two irrelevant morons again. :roll: I have an internet blog so I must know what I'm talking about. Right? :lol:
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teacher
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by teacher »

I said interesting not accurate.
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Rockie
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Rockie »

From the latest FAO report published in April 2015:

"The F-35 program continued to experience development and testing discoveries over the past year, largely due to a structural failure on the F-35B durability test aircraft, an engine failure, and more mission system test growth than expected."

"In June 2014, an F-35A engine caught fire during take-off. As a result, the entire F-35 fleet was grounded for nearly one month and then placed under flight restrictions for several additional months. A root cause analysis conducted by Pratt & Whitney determined that excessive heat caused by rubbing between engine fan components ultimately led to parts of the engine breaking free at a high rate of speed, resulting in a fire."

"Follow-up inspections conducted by the contractor identified 22 engines with evidence of overheating."

"The program has a long way to go to achieve its engine reliability goals. Reliability is a function of how well a system design performs over a specified period of time without failure, degradation, or need of repair. During system acquisition, reliability growth should occur over time through a process of testing, analyzing, and fixing deficiencies through design changes or manufacturing process improvements. Once fielded, there are limited opportunities to improve a system’s reliability without additional cost increases and schedule delays. Currently, the F-35 engine’s reliability is very poor and overall aircraft reliability growth has been limited. Improving engine reliability will likely require additional design changes and retrofits."

It's pretty clear that the unqualified confidence in the F-35's engine expressed by Peter Mackay and others is seriously unjustified. What is it anyway, do they beat any sense of self-preservation out of new fighter pilots these days in Cold Lake? They never used to and believe me, this is an issue we would have been extremely concerned about back in my day. But what I found most surprising in the report was this:

"In addition, in September 2014, we reported problems with the F-35 software reliability and maintainability. Specifically, we reported that the program continues to experience both hardware and software reliability issues, but DOD had no processes or metrics that provide sufficient insight into the impact of software reliability and maintainability contributing to the overall aircraft reliability."

There are serious issues with the airplane, and nobody except the USGAO seems interested in measuring the impact it will have. For sure Harper and bunch haven't. Astounding.
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by 2R »

The Yugoslavia campaign saw the early retirement of the "Stealth" F117A, the Syrian campaign may see the early retirement of the F-22. The deployment of anti-aircraft missiles in the theatre will enable the Russians to begin killing all the irregular illegal combatants who have not run away to Kos .

By the time the Politicians make up their choice for a replacement fighter/bomber/multi-use /all purpose platform , WW3 will be over .Without a DOMINANT FAST INTERDICTION LETHAL CAPABILITY FIGHTER ,you might as well save money and get POM POMS :)

Euphemisms and politically correct male bovine excretions will not win the next big show :)
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AuxBatOn
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by AuxBatOn »

The reasons the F-117 got shot down isn't because it stealth didn't work but rather because they used the same route everyday into the theater. What stealth does is reduce (not eliminate) the range at which target tracking radar can have a track with sufficient quality to be able to employ weapons. Normally, that range is so small that by the time the enemy first detects the aircraft, they don't have the chance to set their systems up to pick the track up, identify it then shoot. If they know F-117s fly along the same route every day around the same time, all they have to do is set their radar up properly and as soon as the target return appears, engage it. When tactical unit do their jobs properly and use random routes, it becomes almost impossible to engage them. Look at Desert Storm.

Fast forward 20 years. The stealth technology evolved greatly further reducing the engagement ranges, making it that much more difficult to effectively engage F-22s. I commanded F-22s for several missions, some in training against very recent threats and during real combat operations with no kidding real missile batteries in the area of operations and I can guarantee that when used properly, stealth works.

But Stealth isn't quite why I think the F-35 is what we need. I am digging way more its sensors integration.
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2R
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by 2R »

Quintas : People should know ,when they are conquered

Maximus : Would you Quintas ? Would I ?

@ approx. 3 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZghMKa4jGo





The question that should be asked ,before agreeing to being "annexed" by another countries military industrial complex. And being sold second rate shit.

The second question would be : Do you like gladiator movies Joey ? :)
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AuxBatOn
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by AuxBatOn »

Second rate shit. I hope you have at least some solid knowledge of the program (not what's shown in the media) to say this. Otherwise you opinion is worth a big nothing.
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2R
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by 2R »

They will not sell us their first rate stuff like the F22 ,that proves they will only sell us second rate stuff.
If I was working procurement , I would be looking at the German response to the Mig 41 , it might not be as stealthy as the F22 but it will be faster and have some teeth.
The Germans did not invest in the worlds largest titanium forge to build children's toys ,like Krupps did prior to WW2.
Before anyone says they do not build the F22 anymore.All the tools and dies to make them still exist and a production run could be done in Canada .
Maybe one question might be : Why do they not trust us with the first rate stuff ?
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frosti
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by frosti »

2R wrote: The question that should be asked ,before agreeing to being "annexed" by another countries military industrial complex. And being sold second rate shit.
http://www.theonion.com/article/local-i ... ernet-2500
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iflyforpie
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by iflyforpie »

AuxBatOn wrote:Otherwise you opinion is worth a big nothing.
It's worth about as much as the 'argument from authority/I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you' opinions that you've been spouting.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by AuxBatOn »

At least mine is informed. You don't have to believe me.
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by 2R »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

It can provide a decent target for the enemy to shoot at a fraction of the price of the other expensive targets .

Now where did I put my Kool-Aid :)
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teacher
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by teacher »

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2R
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by 2R »

Have you heard the leprechaun joke ?
Do you believe everything a man in a green suit tells you ;)

My WAG is they will announce huge jobs deal at a new factory in La Belle Province and they will order twice the number of new deal jets . That way they can say the Tories got it all wrong and were not ordering enough new planes to whip out . After all we will need something to "whip out" as the old planes get to the end of their useful life :)

They will sell it with jobs ,jobs ,jobs like a good snow job ;)
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Pop n Fresh
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Pop n Fresh »

Has the new king contacted Bob Diemart yet?
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Old fella »

Like Harper, this F-35 fiasco will be shown the exit door, never to be seen again.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

The people at DND have to play by the procurement rules of this country. They must stop trying to short circuit the system and attempt to purchase what they feel they need single source. It is not in the best interest of this country to single source.
I am renovating my house and always get three estimates for big ticket items. Even if I know in advance which one I will pick, I can play one against the other to get a better deal.

DND did it for the C-130J, for the Chinook, the C-17 and a few other things and it worked. The Canadian public and the Canadian press let them have it, because DND pretended that the troops that were under fire in Afghanistan urgently needed them. It worked. But when they tried it for the EW101, the FWSAR and the F-35 and it didn't work.
Write real specs (SORs) that are not custom written to fit only one supplier, let everyone who thinks they can supply show their wares, evaluate all the submissions and pick the best.

It may still end up with a F-35 at the end, but at least it will be by the rules and regulations......
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Old fella »

The F-35 is toxic, even Harper backed away by punting up up a few years. Trudeau indicated it will be cancelled, said so in his platform prior to this past Monday. He now has a better than expected majority government. This project is now done.
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bizjets101
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by bizjets101 »

Washington (October 21, 2015, 7:57 PM ET) -- The next leader of Canada plans to end the country’s purchasing of Lockheed Martin Corp. F-35 fighter jets, saying Tuesday he would begin a competition process to replace its aging fighter fleet that could eventually save “tens of billions of dollars.”
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Moose47 »

G'day

" The Canadian public and the Canadian press let them have it, because DND pretended that the troops that were under fire in Afghanistan urgently needed them".

I don't know anyone who served there that would say there was any pretending on the part of the government. Tell me again how long you served in the 'Stan'?

Cheers...Chris
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212wrench
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by 212wrench »

Maybe they can buy used ones. Worked for the subs. Man that's funny.
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Meatservo
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Re: The F-35 is not dead

Post by Meatservo »

Moose47 wrote:G'day

" The Canadian public and the Canadian press let them have it, because DND pretended that the troops that were under fire in Afghanistan urgently needed them".

I don't know anyone who served there that would say there was any pretending on the part of the government. Tell me again how long you served in the 'Stan'?

Cheers...Chris
Doesn't have to have served in order to be entitled to an opinion, as long as he's one of the people who helps pay for it all. It doesn't mean his opinion is right, but I think you can imagine what kind of society we would have if the only people who were allowed to have opinions on defence were serving members of the military. Calling someone out for not serving in the military, or over your assumption that they haven't isn't cricket, either. Kind of reverse-elitist. There are lots of courageous and well-informed members of society who do not serve in the military, and contribute to society in other ways.

A more appropriate response to that comment might have been "actually, I was under fire in Afganistan, and I did feel that those aeroplanes were needed" That would have been free of the implication that you are dismissing someone because they weren't part of your service.

It happens that I, for instance, DO believe the Air Force needs C-130s and C-17s. But you shouldn't respect my opinion, either, because I do not serve in the military.
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