The F-35 is not dead
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
I think I may have stumbled across a solution. Meet the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-Quo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDC_F-CK-1_Ching-kuo
Is it ideal? I dunno, depends on your definition I guess. It has two engines so there's that, plus it's made in Taiwan so... cheap maybe? Looking like what happens when a F-16 and F-18 spend some sexy time together, I can only hope it somehow melds the best attributes of the two. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia the engine manufacturer seemed to think that with a little tweaking this baby could supercruise which with our general vastness of the north seems like a good feature, no? Plus, it can carry stuff:
So how about this: we get Bombardier to build them (yay, our stocks!), get P&WC on the job of developing those supercruise-worthy engines, and, I don't know, whatever Canadian company can do avionics working their mojo on that end of things then we can all give ourselves a big hug that we're making it all here. All that's missing is the standard battleship grey paint and the decoy canopy painted on the belly. That, and export them. Lots of them. How expensive can this little guy really be?
As for the name, I think Ching-Quo is going to have to go. How about the Canuck II? Not the Arrow II. Never the Arrow II. I'm saving that one for a whole other proposal. Keep the F-CK bit though, mostly because it makes me laugh.
I like the idea that if there's a conflict somewhere in the world, Canada decides the number of flying F-CKs we give.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDC_F-CK-1_Ching-kuo
Is it ideal? I dunno, depends on your definition I guess. It has two engines so there's that, plus it's made in Taiwan so... cheap maybe? Looking like what happens when a F-16 and F-18 spend some sexy time together, I can only hope it somehow melds the best attributes of the two. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia the engine manufacturer seemed to think that with a little tweaking this baby could supercruise which with our general vastness of the north seems like a good feature, no? Plus, it can carry stuff:
So how about this: we get Bombardier to build them (yay, our stocks!), get P&WC on the job of developing those supercruise-worthy engines, and, I don't know, whatever Canadian company can do avionics working their mojo on that end of things then we can all give ourselves a big hug that we're making it all here. All that's missing is the standard battleship grey paint and the decoy canopy painted on the belly. That, and export them. Lots of them. How expensive can this little guy really be?
As for the name, I think Ching-Quo is going to have to go. How about the Canuck II? Not the Arrow II. Never the Arrow II. I'm saving that one for a whole other proposal. Keep the F-CK bit though, mostly because it makes me laugh.
I like the idea that if there's a conflict somewhere in the world, Canada decides the number of flying F-CKs we give.
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Solid pointlownslow wrote: I like the idea that if there's a conflict somewhere in the world, Canada decides the number of flying F-CKs we give.
Think ahead or fall behind!
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Once again people, you've lost the plot.....
We've 2 main fighter bases Maggotville, and Cool Lake. Any fighter we buy must have the capability of flying YOD-YQQ, YOD-YSY, YBG-YFB or YBG-YQY intercept, 5 Minute combat/15Minute escort, and return to a suitable base. farthest is 1200 NM, closest around 600. The F-35(whale) is draggy due to the lift fan required for the USMC. They say the F35 can "supercruise" for 150 miles. Only way around this is to use FOL's I know the one in YEV was sold to the town for 1$, the town accountant didn't want to pay for the compressors, and shut off the cooling plant. The inside of the alert hangars subsided and the concrete is buggered hence they are unusable. How about the others in the north...
We need something like the Typhoon or Raphale as the US won't sell any F22's. Dassault has already talked of assembly lines here.
We've 2 main fighter bases Maggotville, and Cool Lake. Any fighter we buy must have the capability of flying YOD-YQQ, YOD-YSY, YBG-YFB or YBG-YQY intercept, 5 Minute combat/15Minute escort, and return to a suitable base. farthest is 1200 NM, closest around 600. The F-35(whale) is draggy due to the lift fan required for the USMC. They say the F35 can "supercruise" for 150 miles. Only way around this is to use FOL's I know the one in YEV was sold to the town for 1$, the town accountant didn't want to pay for the compressors, and shut off the cooling plant. The inside of the alert hangars subsided and the concrete is buggered hence they are unusable. How about the others in the north...
We need something like the Typhoon or Raphale as the US won't sell any F22's. Dassault has already talked of assembly lines here.
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
The Trudeau Government indicated the F-35 is off the table, said so during their campaign up to October 19 when they got a convincing majority. I believe yesterday same thing was said in a media scrum with the new Minister who is responsible for Procurement. Sure, boys and girls, keep bleating on this topic pro/con commentary but the F-35 is dead, like this thread should be.
Re: The F-35 is not dead
It would be illegal, bu Canadian law, to prevent Lockheed to bid into the procurement process. So they will likely bid.
Going for the deck at corner
Re: The F-35 is not dead
I agree. I think when they say "cancel" they mean end the headlong, singleminded, tunnel vision rush to buy the Conservatives favourite toy and hold a proper competition. Or at least a different one. There's little doubt in my mind the SOR will be changed to open the table to other types instead of like the last one that was so narrow only the F-35 fit.AuxBatOn wrote:It would be illegal, bu Canadian law, to prevent Lockheed to bid into the procurement process. So they will likely bid.
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
Which is also what they did for the C-17, the C-130J, the CH-47F, the FWSAR......Rockie wrote:There's little doubt in my mind the SOR will be changed to open the table to other types instead of like the last one that was so narrow only the F-35 fit.
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Very true, but in the case of the C-17, C-130 and Chinook the capabilities required were pretty simple, and if there were viable alternatives that fit the CF as well I don't know what they are. In the F-35's case the required capabilities are suspect to say the least.Gilles Hudicourt wrote:Which is also what they did for the C-17, the C-130J, the CH-47F, the FWSAR......Rockie wrote:There's little doubt in my mind the SOR will be changed to open the table to other types instead of like the last one that was so narrow only the F-35 fit.
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
"Cancel" or "bid" or "SOR", whatever you want. The next four years, there will be no agreement signed to purchase the F-35. After that if Trudeau gets the boot from office and some form of the CPC is re-elected, guess the F-35 could be back in the headlines.
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Rush? They had 4 years of majority, if they truly had been in a rush, contracts would have been signed already don't you think?Rockie wrote: I agree. I think when they say "cancel" they mean end the headlong, singleminded, tunnel vision rush to buy the Conservatives favourite toy and hold a proper competition.
But how? Do you think Canada will get out of the JSF MoU?AuxBatOn wrote:It would be illegal, bu Canadian law, to prevent Lockheed to bid into the procurement process. So they will likely bid.
If Canada doesn't, I don't understand why Lockheed-Martin would bid. It would basically have to compete against itself (the JSF MoU), through FMS, and offer price and industrial offsets guarantees.
Think ahead or fall behind!
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Contracts would have been signed if the PBO hadn't done their job and exposed that entire program for the incompetent, fraudulent fiasco that it was. When they did the Conservatives were literally forced to bring everything to a grinding halt and nothing has happened since because there was no plan B. No alternative. No other fighter considered.trampbike wrote:Rush? They had 4 years of majority, if they truly had been in a rush, contracts would have been signed already don't you think?
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Actually, i believe Trudeau during the campaign specifically said the F-35 would be excluded. That seemed kinda odd to me though. Maybe just campaign talk,Rockie wrote:I agree. I think when they say "cancel" they mean end the headlong, singleminded, tunnel vision rush to buy the Conservatives favourite toy and hold a proper competition. Or at least a different one. There's little doubt in my mind the SOR will be changed to open the table to other types instead of like the last one that was so narrow only the F-35 fit.AuxBatOn wrote:It would be illegal, bu Canadian law, to prevent Lockheed to bid into the procurement process. So they will likely bid.
Wahunga!
Re: The F-35 is not dead
He did, but it doesn't make it legal!
Going for the deck at corner
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Yes, that kinda was what I was thinking.AuxBatOn wrote:He did, but it doesn't make it legal!
Wahunga!
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
Those would be the Only major capital projects for the Canadian Armed Forces that was delivered under budget and ahead of schedule. How was that done ? Easy they decided to buy a proven design with full visibility on costs, didn't "Canadian-ize" it, , and negotiated a fair price. Golly we sure don't want to make that mistake again.Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Which is also what they did for the C-17, the C-130J,
It is going to be so much better getting the plane that is still not even close to full mission capable, costs 40 % more than it is supposed to, and is 6 years behind schedule.........
Too bad there isn't a 2 engine, full capable, multi roll, mature in production fighter with totally predicable costs, used daily by the US Navy and Marine Corps and supported to 2040; we could buy right now.......
Re: The F-35 is not dead
I think it's ironic that the F-35 program was a path started down by a Liberal government back in the 90's. The intention to buy was formally announced in 2010, but way, way back, the Liberals began involvement in the project with a view to bring massive contacts to Canadian aerospace industries and buy the aircraft.
Canada has been a participant in the JSF program since 1997, when the Department of National Defence signed on to the Concept Demonstration phase with an investment of US$10 million. As part of this phase, Canada participated in the extensive and rigorous U.S.-led competitive process where two bidders, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, developed and competed prototype aircraft. This process led to the selection of Lockheed Martin as the JSF manufacturer in 2001.
In 2002, Canada joined the System Development and Demonstration phase with a monetary investment of U.S.$100 million, with an additional U.S.$50 million contributed through federal Canadian technology investment programs. The System Development and Demonstration phase runs through 2015.
In 2003, the United States invited the current partners to participate in the Production, Sustainment and Follow-on Development phase of the program.
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?m=/index&nid=548059
Canada has been a participant in the JSF program since 1997, when the Department of National Defence signed on to the Concept Demonstration phase with an investment of US$10 million. As part of this phase, Canada participated in the extensive and rigorous U.S.-led competitive process where two bidders, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, developed and competed prototype aircraft. This process led to the selection of Lockheed Martin as the JSF manufacturer in 2001.
In 2002, Canada joined the System Development and Demonstration phase with a monetary investment of U.S.$100 million, with an additional U.S.$50 million contributed through federal Canadian technology investment programs. The System Development and Demonstration phase runs through 2015.
In 2003, the United States invited the current partners to participate in the Production, Sustainment and Follow-on Development phase of the program.
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?m=/index&nid=548059
Re: The F-35 is not dead
I'm glad there are people out there advocating for keeping the RCAF tradition of 'Flying yesterdays technology, tomorrow!" It's exactly what they need, a less capable, more expensive long-term fighter. You should run for politics.Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Too bad there isn't a 2 engine, full capable, multi roll, mature in production fighter with totally predicable costs, used daily by the US Navy and Marine Corps and supported to 2040; we could buy right now.......
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
Anyone who seriously thinks the F 35 is going to be cheaper to own and operate than the Super Hornet, is being willfully delusional.frosti wrote:I'm glad there are people out there advocating for keeping the RCAF tradition of 'Flying yesterdays technology, tomorrow!" It's exactly what they need, a less capable, more expensive long-term fighter. You should run for politics.Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Too bad there isn't a 2 engine, full capable, multi roll, mature in production fighter with totally predicable costs, used daily by the US Navy and Marine Corps and supported to 2040; we could buy right now.......
Re: The F-35 is not dead
Anyone who thinks the Super Hornet will do the job for the next 40 years isn't flying fighters...Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Anyone who seriously thinks the F 35 is going to be cheaper to own and operate than the Super Hornet, is being willfully delusional.
Think ahead or fall behind!
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Re: The F-35 is not dead
It's remembrance day,reflecting on how many times canadian troops. Have gone into front line battles with 2 conflicts ago kit. Have we as a nation failed to learn anything. The first coffins in Canadian conflicts are always a result of playing catch up in kit, due to small dicked politics lack of brains and will. I say it again. F22 kill the 87to1 against the super hornet. F35. 45to 1. If you are the father or mom of a 25yr. oldfighter jock. Which one do you want your son or daughter to go into battle with? The time is now to stop procrastination. War is not a game it and all the posturing to prevent it is still based on who has the best tools to prevent itfrom Starting or very quickly end it . Get you new mp off their duff help educate them about fighter jets. And what What happen when 3gen fight goes up against fifth gen.