Flight attendant=Pilot???

[.80@410]

[
I thought the whole point of calling the bi$#*es Flight Attendants over Cookie Pushers or Stewardess's was to remove the connotation that it was a female job. And benefit women workers across Canada? What's next, women nurses demanding the same wages as male doctors... oh wait... they are. Next time I fly Air Canada I'm calling them Stewardess's and Cookie Pushers or maybe even bi$#*@e$. Wonder if I'll get my pillow and cold cola then?
[/quote]

After dating one for a year, I seriously suggest you don't piss them of..bed time stories have consisted off everything from:

1) Being labelled Mr & Mrs TNUC..( get it ?? ( how about backwards )
2) Food served after it rolled around the galley floor,
3) Sneezing on the utensils

and for the real b@stard pax,

4) Serving the buns after they were used to wipe either the galley, or the lav.

I kid you not...

oh, and PS,

Don't order the coffee...or the tea.....bacause you are NOT drinking bottled water if you get my drift. ..

and the pop you leave in the seat backs ?? recycled.

[skyhigh]

$60,000 to $ 70,000 per year for flight attendants??? No wonder A/C is in a nose dive. Thank the unions.....check out CUPE's website, it states"...the flight attendant is the first and last line of defence if something goes wrong in the air"...Well I guess the pilots are just glorified button pushers anyways......hey at least the propaganda isn't hidden.

[Panama Jack]

Skyhigh,

C'mon man. Didn't you ever watch the movie Airplane?

"Ladies and Gentlemen this is your purser speaking" (a look of terror in her eyes), "we are wondering if any passengers know how to fly an airplane." A Cessna 152 pilot's fantasy.

[tsgas]

Once again an example of the Federal Government doing what it does best, Destroying the Canadian Airline Industry.
I can better understand why Quebec wnats to leave Canada.

[justplanecrazy]

Talk about knee jerk over-reaction to an issue.

Do any of you understand how "pay equity" works? It is NOT everyone getting the same pay regardless of what you do. It IS a process of setting a financial value for a particular job description using an objective process. A few of the typical measurement criteria include things like:

1. Educational requirements
FA = grade 12
Pilot = 1 year training and 12 years flight experience
2. Decision making authority
FA = to serve the soup hot or cold
Pilot = to try one more approach in the soup while holding 100 lives in their hands, or to go to the Alternate and piss off 100 people
3. Financial responsibility
FA = whether to marry and live off the pilot or the co-pilot
Pilot = whether to support the wife or the FA girlfriend
4. The complexity of decisions
FA = Whether to sit down or not for turbulance
Pilot = Whether to fly at 10,000' with the risk of icing up and dropping out of the sky or to fly at 20,000' with bad turbulance
5. Exposure to workplace hazards
FA = may bump the seats with hips
Pilot = constant exposure to high radiation sunshine and severe stress
6. Communication skill levels
FA = must know a little bit of a couple of languages but grunts will do. A misunderstanding might lead to a vege eatin' meat
Pilot = must be able to speak to controllers in proper radio terms and one misunderstanding could lead to death
7. Depth and breadth of knowledge required
FA = does this food contain traces of peanuts?
Pilot = too many to list
8. Responsibility for others
FA = don't spill the coffee
Pilot = don't spill the plane

Wilbur, now that I'm informed I can definately see how this descision makes sense. FA's definately have it tuff. The fact that CNN quoted the following,

Sachs was reacting to the Federal Court of Appeal's decision that CUPE flight attendants at Air Canada should receive pay equity with male workers performing other jobs within the company.

"Air Canada had argued that the flight attendants, who are mainly women, don't work in the same 'establishment' as defined in the legislation, as pilots and mechanics who are mainly men. The court has ruled that they do," said Sachs.

makes me wonder how much of this desiscion was based on sex vs. job requirements?

.80@410 I was wondering why my bread was soggy and bright blue in color? It tasted kind of funny too. I've talked to a number of FA's and realise that they have to put up with enormous amounts of B.S. from passengers. I feel sorry for them until I hear stuff like this. Makes me want to be the a$$hole that is pissing them off in order to feel like I'm getting my money's worth. Not only do they get amazing salaries but there are tons of benifits like flying for free all over the world, great medical/dental, great pension etc. etc.

[Wilbur]

JPC,

Why do you feel compelled to compare pilots and FA's? In my post I was pretty clear in stating I didn't believe FA's would ever be paid the same as pilots. Your approach to the issue seems to be based primarily on putting down and mocking other occupations. You don't make yourself or pilots appear more important or valuable by demeaning others; just the opposite.

[.80@410]

JustPlaneCrazy:

I was assured that the Pax started it The girls seem nice enough to not do the Lav trick unless the pax is Really asking for it

[justplanecrazy]

Wilbur, Wilbur, Wilbur

Where did I lose you? The reason I responded to your post like I did is that you felt that we were all over reacting to a CNN news article. Let me remind you what you wrote.

Talk about knee jerk over-reaction to an issue.

Do any of you understand how "pay equity" works? It is NOT everyone getting the same pay regardless of what you do. It IS a process of setting a financial value for a particular job description using an objective process. A few of the typical measurement criteria include things like:

FA's would emphasize communication skills, responsibility for others, and other people oriented areas. At the end of the day, they won't be making as much as the pilots, but they probably will make more than customer service agents, groomers, baggage handlers, clerical support staff, etc.

This is not what was written in the CNN Article. The CNN article clearly made it a gender issue and they were simply quoting those involved in the negotiation. I think a monkey could do an FA's job and if you surveyed the customers afterwards they'd probably be way more satisfied with a monkey then your average Air Canada FA. I mean these girls look and act like they are on a 24hr hangover with a side of PMS and Mad Cow Disease. It takes no brains, brawn or skill to be an FA. It is already a great job and to increase their pay while they are decreasing pilots makes absolutely no sense.

I am not sure what this means, but!

CUPE Flight Attendants Score Ground-Breaking Pay Equity Victory for Canadian Women
TORONTO, March 22 /CNW/ - The Canadian Union of Public Employees' ground-breaking pay equity victory is long-overdue justice for flight attendants at Air Canada that will benefit women workers across the country, said CUPE Air Canada Component president Pamela Sachs today.

"Air Canada had argued that the flight attendants, who are mainly women, don't work in the same 'establishment' as defined in the legislation, as pilots and mechanics who are mainly men. The court has ruled that they do," said Sachs.

"This is a ground-breaking decision for Canadian women. The narrow interpretation of 'establishment' as outlined in section 11 of the Pay Equity Act has been thrown out," Sachs said. "The Court of Appeal's decision redefines 'establishment' to include workers within the same company and therefore opens the door to long-overdue justice for women workers who are underpaid compared to their male counterparts working for the same employer. Our victory will certainly have positive implications for women in other industries."

"CUPE has been working hard in every sector to raise women's wages and achieve fairness and equity for women," said CUPE National President Paul Moist. "We're concerned about how long it has taken us to get to this point with Air Canada but we hope that the employer will stop stalling and make a commitment to pay equity now."

So to wrap up, I am comparing Pilots and FA's because that is what you think the descision was based upon. They are comparing FA's to pilots and mechanics in fighting for pay equity so I did my own comaprison. Just like I compared Doctors to Nurses. We all know that the descision was based upon Gender as there is no comparison as far as pay equity goes. I guess you missed that point though.

Just curious are you an FA????

Why don't you try taking the controls for a flight and let the pilot try serving the coffee. I guess they should make closer to the same wage, the pilot spilled the coffee. Why don't these feminist nazi's try getting females into important and well paying roles rather than trying to label the lower jobs as just as important because there are females in them. Instead of fighting for FA's wages, why not start pushing the FA's into piloting careers. I can't wait until CUPE starts arguing that the court clerk should make as much as the Judge that's ruling over the case. After all most judges are males and clerks females and they work in the same establishment!!

[Weaselboy001]

I am not to sure that this will affect WJ, they are not unionized are they. I am not 100% sure how federal decisions are inforced but the lack of union is a big factor

[lowanover]

Some yrs ago I flew with a Capt. who told me how this began. His wife was involved with the F/A union then and launched a complaint that F/A's should be paid the same as a S/O. Of course they thought the oiler didn't do anything and the F/A's "did all the work" ets etc..she eventually dropped it as she realized the huge gap in background and training. However Pam Sachs took up the torch and so it continues. Actually in fairness CUPE's own union execs are very clear that they don't think F/A's should be paid the same as Pilots. What they're hoping for is that by comparing relative values that they will get a pay raise. All the court case has done is allowing f/A's to be valued by comparison with other employee groups , rather than just within their own union. Doesn't really mean squat because I think the F/a's will find that at the end of the day they are overpaid relative to their "value". I don't mean this unkindly. but they can make in eccess of $50g/yr now...(with very good working conditions) and minimal skill or training when compared to other jobs within the airline. It's a costly gamble and ties up the courts that could be put to better use.

[Blastor]

I think it's totaly unjustify that a 50 years old bag-room tech at Air Canada
makes $50 000.00/year while the janitor make $30 000.00

Where's my union rep

[peeelot]

Once again Sid ryan has done nothing but reduce the members in his union. Well I guess it's ok because the members that still have their job can affored to pay triple union dues. Still I think we are being much to harsh as the union said they are the first and last line of defence. Example When there is a major problem such as the coffee is more the 15 min old the FA will be there to save the day and put on a new pot. I seen many of close calls and it's amazing their quick reaction was able to save someone from having bad coffee which would be wrong. Too bad the pilots aren't that important. We can't do much just a couple of examples Land a plane with an engine out in IFR conditions going down to 100 feet on the ILS ohh did I mention that the autopilt was broken. But we all know that making sure there is fresh coffee is much more demanding or handle anything else that can be tossed our way. On second thought I should have spend 40,000 on becoming a FA. Ohh wait I could have done that without 40,000? I just needed A resume