CTV news story on foreign pilots in Canada

[Colonel Sanders]

SWA expects pilots to pay for their own type ratings

I know this will bring howls of outrage, but ...

If you have an ATPL and 3000TT, if you take Doc's
advice and put a $12k trip to texas on your line of credit
and get a 737 type rating, I think you would be virtually
guaranteed of a right seat.

[trey kule]

Maybe for the next short while, CS. The new multi crew licenses will apparently be airline sponsored, so those boys and girls are going to jump to the front of the que for right seat jobs at the airlines...besides the fact they will no doubt be on a kd pay scale....
The poor young career streamers going through the colleges now are going to have a big surprise very soon when the airline right seats dry up for them..You can bet the airlines are going to be all over this..Cheap, virtually indentured labor force. We wont need to worry about foreigners, as there will be a huge surplus of cheap right seaters, and there are lots of Captains with 20 years left, and present FOs to fill the left seats for decades.
And you can bet all those career right seaters will tell you they will get to the left seat..the regulations will change.....they might be right about the regulations changing , but not in the way they are dreaming.

[photofly]

we both have contending ideologies

You can accept the general validity of economic theory without having to prefer the policy that's best for the economy. A lot of people want a world with less "globalization" and less global trade (in which economics says we'd all be poorer on average) because they think we'd be more equal and also happier overall. I won't argue with that preference. But I'll disagree with someone who says that less international trade will make us richer.

Economic science is not the same as Politics: it can help you work out the effect of policies but it can't tell you whether the effect is one you'll want to live with or not.

[RogerCheckCopy]

As much as I disagree with the very imbalanced reciprocity scheme some airlines are engaged in, the safety approach is weak at best. My understanding is that all foreign pilots flying for CJ or Sunwing are current and experienced on the NG, and from what I hear, some have 20,000-30,000 hours on 737's. Crewing seasonally with returning pilots that may not have flown for 6 plus months, or hiring new pilots off the streets every year, many without jet experience is safer how exactly?

[CID]

I used to like watching those news shows that "exposed" the great injustices in the world through "investigative reporting". Then I watched a few that had to do with aviation. A subject that I know a great deal about. The "facts" presented were so often incorrect, presented out of context or designed to just meet the agenda of some shady "whistle-blower" or program producer that it placed ALL similar shows in question.

If reporting was so abysmal for aviation related shows, how about all those shows dealing with government or medicine or current affairs? Are they all just sensationalistic crap designed to boost ratings rather than provide a public service? Yes.

Unfortunately, many people take the bait and shows like W5 or The Fifth Estate or 60 Minutes etc. benefit by increased ratings and corresponding funding from advertising clamouring to buy time on the latest "story".

I don't even bother watching these shows any more. I put them in the same category as other fictional drama or daytime talk shows like Jerry Springer. (Is that even still on??)

Absolute rubbish.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

How about airlines being a necessary public service like when the government ordered the Air Canada employees back to work and took away their strike option?

Or is my memory flawed?

[AFIRS]

As much as I disagree with the very imbalanced reciprocity scheme some airlines are engaged in, the safety approach is weak at best. My understanding is that all foreign pilots flying for CJ or Sunwing are current and experienced on the NG, and from what I hear, some have 20,000-30,000 hours on 737's. Crewing seasonally with returning pilots that may not have flown for 6 plus months, or hiring new pilots off the streets every year, many without jet experience is safer how exactly?

Your understanding is some what correct... I personally fly with European contract pilots and some do have great experience but many also do not. I've personally flown with some where I actually question their previous experience. One in particular had no business at all being in the flight deck, and I haven't even mentioned his English. Many pilots haven't flown since their last Canadian contract.. Many are trying immigrate because of having zero work available back in Europe.

I have no idea how their time and experience is verified/certified but I doubt any of it is. Most if not all said experience is from companies that no longer exist (so is most of mine by the way) but all of my references include previous chief pilots. From the looks of it, the contract company puts an ad out asking for type rated pilots with a minimum of 3000 hours. Pilots apply with "said experience". Contracting company supplies said companies with the pilots. Are references, previous experience, back grounds even checked? I would say no. If anything is done, it's done by the contracting company and they certainly do not have our best interest. I believe we call this a conflict of interest....

I spend my days listening to how inefficient North America is, how more experienced the european pilot is, how our scheduling is BS, how we should be flying the NG, how our SOP's are incorrect, blah, blah, blah...... This is if I can understand their english. Most interesting and frightening is listening to the term oil their european aviation market is in. After listening to this for 5 hours, landing in a tropical destination and hearing our fellow Canadian airline arrive with both pilots having strong thick accents from Europe. Some of these pilots at both airlines are contracting for 8 months...

Both airlines had an ad out for Canadian seasonal type rated pilots, the wage was less then what they pay our european contract pilots- and they get a beautiful condo (with maid service) downtown Toronto and a brand new rental car.

How I see it- I'll eventually be flushed out of my seat by these practices. My wife and I have a new born. Like everyone we have mortgages and bills to pay, food to put on the table- we're not able to think about retirement savings. If my company survives I'll most certainly get laid off, like my friends at Air Transat. Like them, I will have minimal options available other then maybe getting a disgraceful wage at Sky Regional or Encore and being looked down upon by my fellow Canadian pilots. The race to the bottom is nearly complete.

Have a great day folks!

[ea306]

Not seen Jerry Springer in a long while....

But being on AvCanada can have a bit of a Jerry Springer flavour to it.

[TheStig]

AFIRS thanks for contributing a terrific post, great to have the insights of someone on the flight deck.

I think we can all agree that aviation like several other industries falls under the government 'protectionism' umbrella. Foreign Pilots operating in Canada is essentially an out sourcing of a domestically produced product (passenger airline travel). What is at stake here is the Walmartization of our profession akin to what has taken place in the shipping industry since the 1950's. Airlines using these business practices will argue they are trying to provide consumers with a better value or more options, but like all businesses there only interests are profits. The playing field here isn't level and by allowing foreign pilots to work in Canada the government is allowing these carriers to have a competitive advantage that is working against all of our best interests as Canadian pilots in this market place.

[Colonel Sanders]

How do I get a quota from the Milk Marketing Board?
It sounds like a great gig, and I'm cool with everyone
in Canada paying high prices for milk as long as my
special interests are protected.

[photofly]

Airlines using these business practices will argue they are trying to provide consumers with a better value or more options, but like all businesses there only interests are profits.

Can we agree the airlines are only interested in increasing their profits by providing consumers with better value and/or more options?

[BTyyj]

By the way, when was it decided that disallowing foreign workers to enter Canada and take jobs in a market already saturated with qualified workers to be a "protectionist" move by the government?

[photofly]

How is it not protectionist?

[BTyyj]

Protectionism in economics is the restriction of trades through various methods. I don't consider foreign workers taking Canadian jobs a trade.

[photofly]

What makes it a "Canadian" job?

One example of protectionism is artificially limiting who can hold a job based on an arbitrary criterion, i.e. any criterion other than ability to perform in the role. To deny someone the opportunity to fly a particular aircraft solely because they're Polish and not Canadian is the epitome of arbitrary, and a very good example of protectionism.

Of course if Polish pilots are in fact less safe than Canadian pilots then the distinction is no longer arbitrary and the restriction isn't protectionist. Anyone who wants to apply protectionist policies without owning up to it therefore has a good incentive to invent and promote spurious safety concerns about Polish pilots.

[BTyyj]

Employment based restrictions on immigrants should be based on country requirements. For industries that are already saturated with qualified workers, what's the point?

[photofly]

So why not open our border to anyone

Mainly because it's a vote-loser. Never underestimate the stupidity of the electorate.

[BTyyj]

Voting against the loss of Canadian jobs from Canadian citizens to foreign workers working in country is stupid?

[Colonel Sanders]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%8 ... Tariff_Act

The overall level of tariffs under the act were the highest in the U.S. in 100 years, exceeded by a small margin by the Tariff of 1828.[3] The act, and the ensuing retaliatory tariffs by U.S. trading partners, reduced American exports and imports by more than half.

I guess all the pilots here agree with the Russians
trying to block Canadian pork imports, too?

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/wo ... 64433.html

Russia is now Canada's third-largest foreign buyer of pork ... Last year, Russia bought close to half a billion dollars work of pork from Canada.Russia is looking for a way to block the Canadian imports so it can build its own industry

I think all Canadian pilots working outside of Canada
should quit their jobs and move back, because as
foreigners, they are taking away jobs from local citizens.

[BusDriver]

Colonel,

Seriously, you really have no idea why expat Canadians are abroad? If you removed all of the Canadians, Aussies, kiwis and Americans from the UAE what would be left? Same goes for Asia, but that is changing. The boys are coming home....but to what. What will be left of our industry? Can they join you on the airshow circuit?

Bus